AHC: Peerless Air Ministry

[perfectgeneral]

More of the few?

What might be drawn up in these pressing times to increase the pool of replacement pilots? Take into account estimates of our aircraft building capacity in wartime and maximise the resulting squadrons. Do we have enough airfields and ground crews to serve them?

 

[Driftless]

More of the few?

What might be drawn up in these pressing times to increase the pool of replacement pilots? Take into account estimates of our aircraft building capacity in wartime and maximise the resulting squadrons. Do we have enough airfields and ground crews to serve them?

More expansive commonwealth training scheme?

 

[foresterab]

Well prewar Canada’s major contribution was supposed to be aircrew training with plans drafted in the late 30’s. However cost and who was paying caused delays until after war broke out

The RCAF did help fund development of a number of airports in the 20’s for the interwar civil work done related to surveys and aerial patrols...but it all stopped with the depression and many resources were transferred to the provinces

To improve things there are two big limitations ....infrastructure and trainer aircraft. Even small expansions in places like Borden, high river, Lethbridge, Trenton could have big ripples allowing for easier and faster manpower training expansion.
For aircraft looking at outfits in Canada such as avro and de havilland or contracting Curtiss for a Canadian built line could be big. Otl many shops had to start from nothing which impacted cost and production efficiency.

Alternate thought...aircraft such as the cranwell cl-a4 and the pietenpol air camper were sold as kits and assembled by flying clubs or individuals. The pietenpol used a model a engine so maybe a commonwealth common kit plane designed around some common vehicle engines for use in Canada/Australia/India? More pilots flying early = more instructors and training aircraft to impress

 

[phx1138]

You only have knowledge available at the time to work from .

Starting when, 1935?

Am I allowed to tap only expert opinion from HMG boffins or Service people? Or can I reach into other speculative sources? That is, if (frex) Arthur Clarke wrote about satellites in 1940 (he didn't, AFAIK), could I put somebody to work on it?

That said, at a first pass, I'd be asking the boffins & Service experts about intercepting bombers. How are they going to be detected? How are fighters going to be intercepting them? Are they going to be controlled, & how? (My goal here is radar, & GCI with PPI; that outcome would be unknown at the time, but the knowledge to get there wasn't.) How effective are the fighter guns against bombers, and are there better weapons? (Again, the goal is the HS.404; getting there is foreseeable, if that goal itself isn't.) I'd also be asking about measures to defeat U-boats, & if there were any already known that might be revived. (There were, including dipping sonar.) In that area, I'd also be wondering about better a/c for ASW patrol, & possible basing options. (The goal, basing in Newfoundland; is it reasonable to imagine RAF basing a number of *Stirling squadrons there in 1939?)

Following on these, of course, is the electronics industry to support production of radar, which would need financing. Aid to the same in the Dominions might also be a good idea. (Is that asking too much?) This has the added benefit, I suspect, of making radio equipment in general better.

In the aeroengine area, I have a sense the Merlin couldn't have happened appreciably earlier, but the Hercules might have, & effort wasted on other projects (Vulture?) might be avoided. Research into aviation fuels would be a good idea; adding tetraethyl lead would be a start, but what about adding methanol as an octane booster, instead? What about even more exotic fuel mixtures, akin to those used by F1? (Too extreme for the fuel chemistry at the time?) And what about methanol or nitrous ijection?

I'd suggest building new a/c & engine factories in marginal districts as a jobs program. (The ultimate goal, producing the latest fighters in wartime; is Germany being aggro enough, yet? Is Winston strident enough?) I'd be inclined to suggest "bribing" the Dominions to do the same, as well as to set up pilot training plans. (Does this require too much foresight?)

Am I limited to home defense? I'd also be inclined to looking at basing in Malaysia & base defense there, especially given the idea a/c were to rapidly augment the defenses. This might also want a look at better a/c-launched torpedoes or ASMs, like Felix. It also wants better TBs.

Am I banned from looking at FAA? I'd want to look at escort carriers, & the prospect of converting bulk grain or oil carriers to escorts, able to operate TSRs. (Am I pushing the limits?)

Going a bit further afield, I'd want to know if the jet engines & guided weapons in pulp novels are in any way credible. (The goal, develop the Whittle engines, *Felix, *V-1, & possibly RPVs.)

In addition, is it credible to examine the RAF's theory of single-engine light bombers, & so avoid the Battle contract entirely?

Have I missed anything?
Edit:

next fighter generation (the Hurricane) to be developed as a sea fighter

Yep, I overlooked this...

I'd send a technical mission to the U.S. to look at naval a/c design, to see what lessons need to be learned, & what U.S. companies can teach. (Unfortunately, this is the period between the F3F & F3A, & before the F4F & F4U, so most of it will be obsolete before the Hurricane & Spitfire reach service...) Would a mission to Japan, & lessons from the B5N, even be possible, or would IJN simply refuse access?

 

[sonofpegasus]

Part 5,10 The storm Clouds Gather

At the time of the Munich Crisis in September ten of the CH RDF sites had been completed and despite the difficulties made evident in August, at the time of the Crisis the PM’s aircraft had been tracked both outbound and returning to the limit of the CH Range. On the sixth of October Watson Watt received instruction for a crash program for the completion of the remaining ten CH stations. Completion was originally schedule for September 1939 and would now be completed by April 1939. Though all these ten stations would later require modifications and additional works to bring them up to the full operational standard.


For Chain Home low and the AI systems known as RDF1.5 and 2 operating on 1.5 meters wave length Squadron Leader Hart Had submitted his recommendations to the AM. CHL and AI Had different operating requirements and different operational ranges despite utilising the same receiver and transmitter system. When used by CHL the RDF sets had a range of 25 miles for an aircraft flying at 500ft.and therefore to give complete coverage out to 20 miles offshore, CHL RDF units would need to be sight every 30 to 40 miles along the coast and to cover from Landsend to the north of Scotland would require almost 100 new RDF stations. To give RDF coverage to the vulnerable south east and east of the country would require some seven or eight RDF AI stations. CHL stations only had to look out to sea and therefore did not need 360 degree rotation but could sweep back wards and forwards through a set arch. AI however needed inland coverage and a 360 degree sweep.
Not all the proposed CHL sights were suitable for inland search/illumination used in RDF1.5 and 2. Initially CHL installations would first be installed at the CH stations as these stations would already have power supplies, Back up generators and communications systems. Additional inland RDF Stations would be added as rapidly as possible. The first CHL stations would be built at the Ten CH stations between Rye and Danby Beacon. Those to the West and North being added later. Dedicated AI RDF stations would be first set up inland at suitable sites near, Ashford, Stansted, Cambridge, Bawdsey Manor, Norwich and Orby. These initial sites would be added to in order to provide full coverage from Southern Scotland down the West country. The Initial twenty CHL locations based at the CH sites were to commence installation by the beginning of April and be complete by end of August. The first seven inland sights were to be completed within the same times scale. Additional Chain Home and Inland AI RDF sites were to be added at one per week for each type until the coverage was complete.
By August 1939 it was planned to have six operational NF squadrons and two OTU’s. The squadrons would be based at, Martlesham Heath, Middle Wallop, Wittering, Wellingore, Catterick and Hornchurch. Additional squadrons and Bases would be added as the AI RDF network expanded. The CH sites were currently being installed by a specialised team formed at Bawdsey Manor in June 1938 and known as No2 installation unit. Watsons Watts promise to complete the CH line by April would mean denuding Bawdsey Manor of both scientists and technicians which would adversely effect ongoing research and development of other important RDF projects. Both Sir Phillip Swinton and Sir Henry Tizard considered this an intolerable imposition on Bawdsey Manor’s resource and set Out to recruit academics and technicians to set up a second installation and commissioning team for CH stations and another team for the CHL and AI stations which were smaller and by design relatively mobile and quick to install.

Strait after the Munich crisis Watson Watt advised Sir Phillip and Sir Henry that if and when there was a declaration of war the entire Bawdsey Manor research team would be evacuated to Dundee University for safety. Once again this decision appalled Sir Phillip and Sir Henry who after a short discussion informed both Watson Watt and Rowe that Dundee was far to remote from London and the production centres to be a suitable site for the evacuation of Bawdsey and Watson Watt should find an alternative place West of a line running North/South from Manchester to Southampton via Birmingham and Oxford. The chosen location should have good rail communications both to London and to the industrial centres where the manufacture of the RDF components took place. The close proximity of a suitable airfield for the trials flight would also be a necessity.

Earlier in 1937 a committee of three senior officers, one from the Navy, one from the Army and one from the RAF were given the task by the CID of proposing the ideal size of the fighter defence force for Great Britain. Their report recommended that Fighter Command should have 52 sqadrons for home defence. The Army and Navy representatives noted that they thought a larger force was required. Whilst the RAF Office (Sir Hugh Dowding, C in C Fighter Command) had stated in the report that making Fighter command any larger would have to greater effect on the expansion and modernisation of the Bomber force.

At the time of the Munich crisis Fighter Command could only muster twenty five squadrons. Of these one was flying turreted Demons, one a mixture of turreted and unturreted Demons, three were flying Furies, seven were flying Gauntlets, one squadron was transiting from Gauntlets to Hurricanes, one squadron was transiting from Gauntlets to Spitfires, five squadrons were flying Gladiators and finally five squadrons had completed their conversion onto Hurricanes. Aircraft were coming off the production lines in ever increasing numbers but Sir Phillip was not happy with how ill prepared the RAF was for War. However galling and demeaning the debacle of the “Peace in Our Time” capitulation of Chamberlain to the political land grab by the Nazis in Czechoslovakia, Sir Phillip thanked the lord for the time gained for the modernisation of the RAF, he just prayed that Chamberlain had bought then enough of it.

 

[steamboy]

My knowledge of the RAF of this era is a bit sketchy, but was it really that weak with so many biplanes still in service, if so thats bonkers!

But here the CH and 1.5 radar arrays are being built up as quickly as possible and it seems the RAF is going into a full on emergency transition for its as many Spitfires and Hurricanes get built as fast as humanly possible.

The larger night fighter force I would assume is being kept a bit secret or at least the Radar is. All these developments are well done and not in a massively overt wanky way, well save turning Lindermann into offal.

 

[duckie]

My knowledge of the RAF of this era is a bit sketchy, but was it really that weak with so many biplanes still in service, if so thats bonkers!

But here the CH and 1.5 radar arrays are being built up as quickly as possible and it seems the RAF is going into a full on emergency transition for its as many Spitfires and Hurricanes get built as fast as humanly possible.

The larger night fighter force I would assume is being kept a bit secret or at least the Radar is. All these developments are well done and not in a massively overt wanky way, well save turning Lindermann into offal.

That many Biplanes is not so strange. The development curve of aircraft in the 1930's was steep. Almost all airforces had frontline biplanes is that time, even the Germans (Hs-123 etc. )

 

[sonofpegasus]

The RAF OOB is exactly as OTL, The Butterflies have not taken to the air just yet.

 

[naraic]

My knowledge of the RAF of this era is a bit sketchy, but was it really that weak with so many biplanes still in service, if so thats bonkers!

Hurricane and Spitfire are believe it or not first generation monoplane fighters. There were no monoplane fighters before that. Other countries were in the same position. The me109 was about 2 months ahead of the hurricane in terms of adoption.

The Italians still have biplane fighter designs they havent introduced yet and that stayed in front line operation right throuh 1945.

Over the last several years ive been working on a project (on the back burner) of an Anglo Italian war out of the abysinnian crisis. One of the storylines is how early prototype hurricans are rushed to North Africa and how well they preform against Italian biplanes cr. 30 and cr.32. Not squadrons, a couple of pairs of prototypes rushed out.

 

[Driftless]

Even some of the transitional monoplane fighters: Boeing P-26, Loire 46, Dewoitine D.500, PZL P.11, Fokker D.XXI, etc; had fixed landing gear and variable levels of struts and wires

 

[phx1138]

a brace of Dowdings

A nice turn of phrase.

contract to Westland for their twin engine P9 design with the rider that they liaise with Power Jets so that the P9 could be fitted with twin turbo jets with as little redesign as necessary

Bravo. (Tho I do wonder if proposing jet propulsion so early is too advanced.)

commenced canvassing scientists and technological experts

That makes me wonder about RAF application of operational research. Will it reveal the failings of Bomber Command night navigation before war starts? Or will prewar exercises?

In ref OR, & of A/S patrol, will OR reveal the need for better, dedicated A/S bombs & better a/c depth charges? Might it reveal the need to set a/c DC shallow (& so reveal a need for DCs that can be set shallow enough)?

 

[perfectgeneral]

West of a line running North/South from Manchester to Southampton via Birmingham and Oxford. The chosen location should have good rail communications both to London and to the industrial centres where the manufacture of the RDF components took place. The close proximity of a suitable airfield for the trials flight would also be a necessity.

Swindon? RAF Fairford isn't that far away. Shrewsbury/Telford has RAF Cosford, but the links to academia and London are not so good. Chester has RAF Broughton and a long way to go. Given that brief, I'd go for Swindon.

 

[sonofpegasus]

ITL as OTL contract No556965/36 for two Whirlwind prototypes place with Westland late February 1937, OTL Whittle ran the first test turbine in April 1937. ITTL whilst reviewing the drawings of the Whirlwind Prototype it was noted that, Petter the designer had routed the engine exhaust through the wing and out the back of the Engine Nacelle to reduce drag or even provide some positive thrust, Just like Whittles jet engine. Light bulb goes on at AM, lets send Petter very confidential information regarding Whittles engine and see what he comes up with. This is a very slow burn, very low priority design study but ITTL it is there.
Yes Navigation and the inability of Bomber Command to even hit the right country is a real issue and ITTL actions are being taken but 'Rome was not built in a day 'The Technical density and interaction of those Technologies ITTL are really causing continuity issues with TTl, so posts might slow down for a bit while I 'Herd the Cats'.

 

[sonofpegasus]

Cheltenham! anyone, Gloster aircraft and Staverton airfield close by. Rail links to Birmingham, Oxford and London and Bristol Via Glouster, not to say Wales as well!

 

[perfectgeneral]

Answers in bold.

Starting when, 1935?

Am I allowed to tap only expert opinion from HMG boffins or Service people? Not only. Or can I reach into other speculative sources? That is, if (frex) Arthur Clarke wrote about satellites in 1940 (he didn't, AFAIK), could I put somebody to work on it? With a reason that UK PM and cabinet would accept? You might be conducting some secret projects, but this is 1900+, it must remain in context.

That said, at a first pass, I'd be asking the boffins & Service experts about intercepting bombers. How are they going to be detected? How are fighters going to be intercepting them? Are they going to be controlled, & how? (My goal here is radar, & GCI with PPI; that outcome would be unknown at the time, but the knowledge to get there wasn't.) How effective are the fighter guns against bombers, and are there better weapons? (Again, the goal is the HS.404; getting there is foreseeable, if that goal itself isn't.) I'd also be asking about measures to defeat U-boats, & if there were any already known that might be revived. (There were, including dipping sonar.) In that area, I'd also be wondering about better a/c for ASW patrol, & possible basing options. (The goal, basing in Newfoundland; is it reasonable to imagine RAF basing a number of *Stirling squadrons there in 1939?)
Sounds possible. Uproar about the first four engine bomber base, but possible.

Following on these, of course, is the electronics industry to support production of radar, which would need financing. Aid to the same in the Dominions might also be a good idea. (Is that asking too much?) This has the added benefit, I suspect, of making radio equipment in general better.
You have the same money that was spent the first time unless the Air Ministry finds a new revenue stream outside the treasury.

In the aeroengine area, I have a sense the Merlin couldn't have happened appreciably earlier, but the Hercules might have, & effort wasted on other projects (Vulture?) might be avoided. Research into aviation fuels would be a good idea; adding tetraethyl lead would be a start, but what about adding methanol as an octane booster, instead? What about even more exotic fuel mixtures, akin to those used by F1? (Too extreme for the fuel chemistry at the time?) And what about methanol or nitrous ijection?
Methanol as an anti-knock admixture would be a lifesaver.

I'd suggest building new a/c & engine factories in marginal districts as a jobs program. (The ultimate goal, producing the latest fighters in wartime; is Germany being aggro enough, yet? Is Winston strident enough?) I'd be inclined to suggest "bribing" the Dominions to do the same, as well as to set up pilot training plans. (Does this require too much foresight?)
Shadow Factories are a thing. Although not active outside of hostilities, so not a great employer yet.

Am I limited to home defense? I'd also be inclined to looking at basing in Malaysia & base defense there, especially given the idea a/c were to rapidly augment the defenses. This might also want a look at better a/c-launched torpedoes or ASMs, like Felix. It also wants better TBs.
A huge amount was spent on Singapore airbases, not so much on defending them.

Am I banned from looking at FAA? I'd want to look at escort carriers, & the prospect of converting bulk grain or oil carriers to escorts, able to operate TSRs. (Am I pushing the limits?)
Yes conversion kits for more escort carriers earlier is a step over the line into RN floating things. You could ask them. Offer to order more naval aircraft if they do it?

Going a bit further afield, I'd want to know if the jet engines & guided weapons in pulp novels are in any way credible. (The goal, develop the Whittle engines, *Felix, *V-1, & possibly RPVs.)
The bleeding edge is where funding and resource bleed out, but you could go this way.

In addition, is it credible to examine the RAF's theory of single-engine light bombers, & so avoid the Battle contract entirely?
I think so. Yet it seems that sonofpegasus is allowing himself more kickback from the established plan. Changing plans takes changing the actions of people and the purpose of budget headings.

Have I missed anything?
Edit:

Yep, I overlooked this...

I'd send a technical mission to the U.S. to look at naval a/c design, to see what lessons need to be learned, & what U.S. companies can teach. (Unfortunately, this is the period between the F3F & F3A, & before the F4F & F4U, so most of it will be obsolete before the Hurricane & Spitfire reach service...) Would a mission to Japan, & lessons from the B5N, even be possible, or would IJN simply refuse access?

I don't think any country wants to share it's best military ideas. Although the American ideas on wing testing and design were commercially available. Perhaps the contradiction between UK ideas on wing thickness and data from the USA should have been examined more critically?

 

[perfectgeneral]

Cheltenham! anyone, Gloster aircraft and Staverton airfield close by. Rail links to Birmingham, Oxford and London and Bristol Via Glouster, not to say Wales as well!

Goes beyond what you asked for in terms of distance west of the line. Not a bad choice, but I think Swindon has/had better links. Perhaps not to the Midlands and north. Certainly a good evacuation. Much less bombing.

 

[sonofpegasus]

OTL after the debacle of going to Dundee, Most of the Bawdsey team ended up in Malvern for the duration! Whilst others spent Time at St Avans in south Wales and at what is now Hurn airport near Bournemouth.

 

[merlin]

ime at St Avans in south Wale

Don't you mean - St. Athans?

 

[sonofpegasus]

Yes Of Course I do, OOPS!

 

[phx1138]

Not only. ... With a reason that UK PM and cabinet would accept? You might be conducting some secret projects, but this is 1900+, it must remain in context.

It's the source(s) of good ideas I'm after. My thinking is, tap even the outlandish & see if it's practical. I don't expect AAMs in 1940, but maybe FFARs would cross somebody's mind, or PGMs, or even ejection systems.

Sounds possible. Uproar about the first four engine bomber base, but possible.

Maritime patrol a/c in NF in '39 means nightmares for U-boats, & way, way lower losses to shipping for the duration. Neptune in '43?

You have the same money that was spent the first time unless the Air Ministry finds a new revenue stream outside the treasury.

There might be some PV business, but in general, that looks to mean either sacrificing programs (I'd hoped to kill the Battle & Defiant), reducing orders (say, of Spitfires), or slowing/delaying production. If that means fewer Spits, it would be bad prima facie--but, given better interception control, better pilot training, & better weapons, losses are likely to be lower, & success greater, so it's a net wash (maybe even a gain).

Which makes me think, if there are prewar exercises, can we get an RAF Sea Rescue Service, like the Germans had? You'd think an island nation would have thought of this...

Methanol as an anti-knock admixture would be a lifesaver.

I'm reminded of something else that might be of use: nitro. (Careful with the blower pops.)

A huge amount was spent on Singapore airbases, not so much on defending them.

I had in mind a thorough study of building, defending, & (also important) locating them, so they don't end up in places that can't be defended... Might it be possible to reduce the amount spent, by better selection of sites? Better air raid warning would be crucial, & better co-ordination with the local RN, too.

Yes conversion kits for more escort carriers earlier is a step over the line into RN floating things. You could ask them. Offer to order more naval aircraft if they do it?

I like it. Even if it's outside my ambit, I'd expect to be in conversation with my Admiralty counterpart, & raising the idea with him. Discussions of the ability of TSRs to fly from short fields, & of trade protection in ref Maritime Command, might well lead to *CVEs coming up--& being built sooner.

I don't think any country wants to share it's best military ideas. Although the American ideas on wing testing and design were commercially available. Perhaps the contradiction between UK ideas on wing thickness and data from the USA should have been examined more critically?

Not military ideas, but the design tech isn't secret. NACA is open, & a/c companies want to sell products; asking Grumman or Vought about their best products for USN isn't out of the question (even if the exact spec is secret), so learning things like best wing folding or, as you rightly say, thickness-chord ratios, is in bounds, & that's the kind of thing I had in mind. I might add, military attachés are known for discovering secrets...

One other thing: don't move the radar research team around. Offhand, I can't recall where they were originally based, but they got moved for fear of German attack, to a place (IIRC) that ended up under attack more, & that, plus the moves, produced needless delay.

I notice that the Bristol Draco used four and five cylinder fuel injection. Might an 18 cylinder version with two nine cylinder (three six cylinder?) injectors be a simpler proposition? Call it the Dragon.

That's an excellent idea. (Tho I wonder about a radial Spitfire. )

Except for the fact the Draco is enormously undersquare, which seems like a bad idea for an aeroengine.... (It seems not to have hurt the Jupiter & Mercury, tho.)

That said, might the Phoenix have been a useful bomber or maritime patrol a/c engine?