AHC/PC/WI: Much Better Off Post-Cold War Eastern Europe

How can Eastern Europe not be in the relatively impoverished situation it is in today after the Cold War? Right now parts of it are suffering higher crime levels, declining populations and lackluster economic activity? How can Eastern Europe be as wealthy and well-off and not having to endure its problems as much as Western Europe? Could a Marshall Plan for the region be possible? What should happen and what are the effects?
 
Maybe a less cold war encourages investments from the West?

eastern-poland-hed.jpg
 
How can Eastern Europe not be in the relatively impoverished situation it is in today after the Cold War? Right now parts of it are suffering higher crime levels, declining populations and lackluster economic activity? How can Eastern Europe be as wealthy and well-off and not having to endure its problems as much as Western Europe? Could a Marshall Plan for the region be possible? What should happen and what are the effects?

What are the limits for the PoD? And are we using the old definition of Eastern Europe which is basically the former USSR, or the new one being peddled during the recent crisis in which a lot of the EU is suddenly also Eastern Europe?
 
What are the limits for the PoD? And are we using the old definition of Eastern Europe which is basically the former USSR, or the new one being peddled during the recent crisis in which a lot of the EU is suddenly also Eastern Europe?

Former USSR and Eastern Bloc. Greece can count on considering the crisis there.
 
Former USSR and Eastern Bloc. Greece can count on considering the crisis there.

Obviously you can't bring those areas up to western Europe's level in 25 years with a 1989-ish PoD, but there is quite a lot that can be done. Firstly, there should be no "shock therapy" transition into capitalism. Of course, not all of the postcommunist industry could have been made competitive. But with some effort quite a lot of it could have been saved. The products of this extra industry would at first be at lower quality, but also at competitive prices because the eastern bloc's workforce was cheap but relatively well educated. Secondly, corruption should be reduced from OTL levels for obvious reasons. And Russia needs to become less aggressive somehow. We've all seen what an aggressive Russia can do with even a large country's economy without even trying. Nor is Russia profiting that much economically. Hopefully the above will slow population decline. For the countries which joined the EU, slower European integration might also help in this respect - without the option of moving to western Europe, millions of their best and brightest remain in their home countries.
 

Deleted member 1487

Probably the USSR collapsing during the war and the US/Wallies end up liberating it. Alternatively you could have the Soviets accepting the Marshall Plan. Really though you'd need to keep the USSR back to it 1939 or even 1941 border so that the Wallies can invest in Central Europe and not have it have a Communist system.
 
Or make western Europe communist as well. A non-Nazi Germany and Russia divide the Balkans, Poland and the Baltics between each other, conquering them very quickly thus sparing those countries' infrastructure. Then a Soviet-German war which ends with the Red Army in Berlin. Then a final war against the UK, France and rump western Germany. The industrialized areas of western Europe become the war's main battlefield and are ruined. Western europe is then brought down to the east's level following Stalin's victory by unlimited pillaging. No, wait. I mean, redistribution of the wealth unfairly accumulated by the western european imperialists among the proletarian masses of Eurasia.
 
Eastern Europe is not impoverished, per ce. Poland and the Czech Republic are the richer, faster developing former Eastern bloc countries. All of the Baltic States and Slovakia are in the Eurozone now. In the past few years, Poland has developed quite a bit. The Czech Republic looks like a developed country, with a nice road system and no appearance of that third world look. Smaller towns in Poland don't look too bad. The income levels could stand to be on par with Western Europe. At my last job, I earned about $750/month after high ass taxes (and this is a good salary for Poland!).
In any case, the countries are developing, some more rapidly than others.

Source: I'm an American who has lived in Poland since 2011.
 

Devvy

Donor
Eastern Europe is not impoverished, per ce. Poland and the Czech Republic are the richer, faster developing former Eastern bloc countries. All of the Baltic States and Slovakia are in the Eurozone now. In the past few years, Poland has developed quite a bit. The Czech Republic looks like a developed country, with a nice road system and no appearance of that third world look. Smaller towns in Poland don't look too bad. The income levels could stand to be on par with Western Europe. At my last job, I earned about $750/month after high ass taxes (and this is a good salary for Poland!).
In any case, the countries are developing, some more rapidly than others.

Source: I'm an American who has lived in Poland since 2011.

I have to say I agree. Granted places there are several countries east that are definitely poor (especially in comparison to western Europe), but rapid growth means that several countries east don't fall into that category any more.

I've been to Czech Rep, Poland, Estonia, and thought they were all fine countries. Prague in particular looks the same as any Western capital as far as I was concerned. I'm sure they have some poor areas still, but so does any rich country.
 
As others point out, Eastern Europe, in parts like Poland especially, is doing very well. Especially after 50 years of Communism, 25 years of capitalism has done wonders in turning things around. Give them a few more years and proper Eurozone integration, and they'll all be up to speed.

Eastern Europe is not impoverished, per ce. Poland and the Czech Republic are the richer, faster developing former Eastern bloc countries. All of the Baltic States and Slovakia are in the Eurozone now. In the past few years, Poland has developed quite a bit. The Czech Republic looks like a developed country, with a nice road system and no appearance of that third world look. Smaller towns in Poland don't look too bad. The income levels could stand to be on par with Western Europe. At my last job, I earned about $750/month after high ass taxes (and this is a good salary for Poland!).
In any case, the countries are developing, some more rapidly than others.

Source: I'm an American who has lived in Poland since 2011.

What do you in in Poland if I may ask?
 
You stay loosey goosey and flexible. For example, selling off the state-run telecom company to a private company may be a great idea, but not at a fire sale price.
 

Pesigalam

Banned
Secondly, corruption should be reduced from OTL levels for obvious reasons.
Good luck with that.
And Russia needs to become less aggressive somehow. We've all seen what an aggressive Russia can do with even a large country's economy without even trying. Nor is Russia profiting that much economically.
To have a less aggressive Russia you need to keep the nation poor and the oil price at $30/barrel or less. But I'd argue a less there is no need to curb Russian bloodlust -- since the end of the Cold War USA was involved in more conflicts that Russia but it had no significant impact on the nation's growth. And since the OP postulates an economic challenge...
Hopefully the above will slow population decline.
How? The Baltic nations have some of the best economic growth in Eastern Europe but they still experience strong negative population growth.
For the countries which joined the EU, slower European integration might also help in this respect - without the option of moving to western Europe, millions of their best and brightest remain in their home countries.
No, what it will lead to is simply Eastern Europeans crossing into Western Europe illegally (just take a look at the illegal immigration statistics regarding Eastern European states outside the Eurozone), making illicit and shadow economies that much larger for all countries involved.
 
Obviously you can't bring those areas up to western Europe's level in 25 years with a 1989-ish PoD, but there is quite a lot that can be done. Firstly, there should be no "shock therapy" transition into capitalism. Of course, not all of the postcommunist industry could have been made competitive. But with some effort quite a lot of it could have been saved. The products of this extra industry would at first be at lower quality, but also at competitive prices because the eastern bloc's workforce was cheap but relatively well educated. Secondly, corruption should be reduced from OTL levels for obvious reasons. And Russia needs to become less aggressive somehow. We've all seen what an aggressive Russia can do with even a large country's economy without even trying. Nor is Russia profiting that much economically. Hopefully the above will slow population decline. For the countries which joined the EU, slower European integration might also help in this respect - without the option of moving to western Europe, millions of their best and brightest remain in their home countries.
Here you go. I believe you are right on the spot. Growing up at that time planty of companies which would have a chance were gone. Interesting is that some of the products from that time which were gone with manufacturers are coming back with new one.
 
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RousseauX

Donor
Obviously you can't bring those areas up to western Europe's level in 25 years with a 1989-ish PoD, but there is quite a lot that can be done. Firstly, there should be no "shock therapy" transition into capitalism.
Shock therapy worked out well in Poland and the Czech Republic, it's not a failure in all circumstances.

And Russia needs to become less aggressive somehow. We've all seen what an aggressive Russia can do with even a large country's economy without even trying.

Russia was not particularly aggressive during the 1990s and yet it was the time when its economy was the weakest and the people suffered the most. The wake of recent Russian aggression came as a result of high oil prices pre-2014 and a resurgent economy which gave them the money to carry out military operations.

Secondly, corruption should be reduced from OTL levels for obvious reasons.
bahahahahaha

That's basically the same as saying the solution to the economic problems of eastern Europe is to get rid of the bad economies.
 
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