AHC/PC/WI: Emperor Naploeon of Mexico?

So this thread got me thinking: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=190472

If Napoleon lives and ends up in Latin America during the exact same time that Iturbide is attempting to commission a European royal to take his place as Emperor of Mexico (would Iturbide have accepted a Prime Ministership and/or would Nappy have offered it?) is it ASB to assume that this is convenient enough to succeed? And what are the effects of Emperor Napoleon of Mexico?

Surely Central America remains under the Mexican Empire and with the build-up of the military and what I presume would be a pretty immediate influx of European immigrants we could see a very different Mexico within decades.

I'm imagining Nappy not living much longer here and leaving the throne to his son (who lives longer) who perhaps marries Sabina de Iturbide, totally legitimizing the line's claim to the Empire.*

Anyway, I'm looking for thoughts, discussions, ideas, arguments, etc. on this and this may be just the thing I need (if it's voted plausible) to jump start my belated revamp of the aborted Maximilian I of Mexico TL I was working on... So please give me some opinions on Napoleon of Mexico. Plausible? Outcome?






*I'm giving myself bonus points for marrying the Iturbide-Bonaparte heiress to Maximilian I... So there...
 
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BUMP AND EDIT:

Clarification: This thread can be taken in pretty much any direction you want. My suggestions are in no way the line the discussion must follow.

I'm looking for ANY thoughts on Napoleon as Emperor of Mexico.

And GO!
 
REALLY?!

I post a thread about Napoleon Bonaparte as the first Emperor of Mexico and there are NO replies?

I was expecting at least some heartfelt derision... at best a discussion of plausibility... But nothing at all? Hmmm...

Final bump on this one.
 
Oh! Oh! What if... after he is defeated the first time, Napoleon is exiled to Mexico instead of Elba?

He could make a bid to take over the Mexican Government and build up the then-large nation into a continental power, with the intent on creating a "New France" in the Americas. If that is the case, we could see a very different Mexican-American war sometime down the line. Napoleon might even try to regain the louisiana territory.
 
Oh! Oh! What if... after he is defeated the first time, Napoleon is exiled to Mexico instead of Elba?

He could make a bid to take over the Mexican Government and build up the then-large nation into a continental power, with the intent on creating a "New France" in the Americas. If that is the case, we could see a very different Mexican-American war sometime down the line. Napoleon might even try to regain the louisiana territory.

I was trying to figure out how this would be possible earlier today and could find nothing that sprang to mind. Except that Mexico is farther from Europe and would therefore be a better choice for exile. Still, it seems too random to be possible to me. Is there any possibility that he gains asylum in The United States for a while until Iturbide's plea for a European monarch? Spitballing here...

I like the idea of Mexico becoming his New France and this concept continuing when his son takes power. As for the Mexican-American War I can see Mexico being the major aggressor under a Bonaparte regime. When and how it comes about I can only guess, however. Regaining the Louisiana Territory would be a future career goal for sure, but I don't see Napoleon reneging on the purchase without first being involved in hostilities with the United States. Then it would make sense for him to attempt to retake it.

Any other ideas? I'm fascinated with this concept but I'm searching for plausible concepts. Good ideas, guys!
 
I'm not sure how to do it, but I do wonder what the reaction in Quebec would be. . .

I'm not so sure it would be instantly pro-Napoleon... if ever. Of course, Napoleon's Mexico could become a force in the New World that agitates French hostility on the continent en masse.
 
Trying to reconquer Lousiana would be a ridiculous dream. Even with military improvement, Mexican hold on its Northern provinces would be tenuous enough. Trying to capture and hold a huge expanse to the Great Lakes is impossible A best case scenario is just recapturing New Orleans.
 
Leaving aside how he got there, a Mexico under Napoleon could expect a very different course of history.

There's no question that one of Nappy's biggest projects will almost immediately be the army, and Mexico's armed forces will come out the better for it. The Mexican Army in a Napoleonic timeline will be larger, much better trained, and be led by a man who had a string of some of the greatest military victories in history under his belt. I can't forsee the Americans tussling with such a behemoth on behalf of a few Texan settlers, given the US' limited military resources at the time.

Secondly, there will be fairly major social changes. Napoleon's achievements in Europe included modernisation of legal codes. The New Mexico, though independent of Spain, is hidebound to Spanish tradition, and Napoleon will have a lot of difficulty overturning this: he might well encounter the pig-headedness that similarly reform minded Mexicans in OTL encountered in trying to modernise the country. With its social stratification, Mexico is going to be a tough nut to crack even for Napoleon. How - or if - he reaches out to the Indian masses, who knows.

Lastly, I don't see how Napoleon would neccessarily be territorially aggressive. By the time he gets to Mexico in this time line, he won't be the same thrusting young man who conquered half of Europe; frankly, he'll be grateful to have come out of the adventure of a lifetime with anything at all to show for it. If he is going for expansionist adventures, it's likely to consist of beating up Central American banana republics. I'd doubt whether a reconquest of Louisiana would be on the cards.

That said, he might have a crack at Haiti, for old times' sake...

Also, when exactly would this be taking place? Nappy died in 1821 at 51, and even assuming he was poisoned, how long he would have lived is very open to speculation. It's probably fair to assume, given his erratic and demanding living and working patterns, that he won't have a particularly long innings. If he makes it healthily to 61, he will have had long enough to make his mark on Mexico, but beyond that who knows?

Would the Austrians consent for Napoleon II to take up the Mexican throne in his father's wake? I'd doubt it. Once Napoleon goes, you'd maybe have a rather interesting succession crisis where the sole heir is kept locked up in Austria. If the Austrians can eventually be pursuaded to release Napoleon/Franz, he's going to turn up in Mexico to a country astonishingly difficult to govern, particularly for a boy who had spent most of his life confined from the public eye. Whetever Mexican legislature there is will usurp so many powers from the Emperor that at best he will be a figurehead.
 
It's an interesting scenario, and one that I think is fully plausible. Napoleon goes to exile in the USA until a time at which Iturbide asks for some European monarch to assume the throne. He might even directly ask Napoleon. The thing is I don't think this will solve all of Mexico's problems. There are still sure to be people unhappy with a monarchy, while Napoleon did show himself as a successful leader, France and Mexico are two different places. Also, the Mexican-American War would be a far more interesting one, I still am not sure who would win. Napoleon's military reforms would help Mexico, but they lost badly IOTL.
 
Leaving aside how he got there, a Mexico under Napoleon could expect a very different course of history.

There's no question that one of Nappy's biggest projects will almost immediately be the army, and Mexico's armed forces will come out the better for it. The Mexican Army in a Napoleonic timeline will be larger, much better trained, and be led by a man who had a string of some of the greatest military victories in history under his belt. I can't forsee the Americans tussling with such a behemoth on behalf of a few Texan settlers, given the US' limited military resources at the time.

Secondly, there will be fairly major social changes. Napoleon's achievements in Europe included modernisation of legal codes. The New Mexico, though independent of Spain, is hidebound to Spanish tradition, and Napoleon will have a lot of difficulty overturning this: he might well encounter the pig-headedness that similarly reform minded Mexicans in OTL encountered in trying to modernise the country. With its social stratification, Mexico is going to be a tough nut to crack even for Napoleon. How - or if - he reaches out to the Indian masses, who knows.

Lastly, I don't see how Napoleon would neccessarily be territorially aggressive. By the time he gets to Mexico in this time line, he won't be the same thrusting young man who conquered half of Europe; frankly, he'll be grateful to have come out of the adventure of a lifetime with anything at all to show for it. If he is going for expansionist adventures, it's likely to consist of beating up Central American banana republics. I'd doubt whether a reconquest of Louisiana would be on the cards.

That said, he might have a crack at Haiti, for old times' sake...

Also, when exactly would this be taking place? Nappy died in 1821 at 51, and even assuming he was poisoned, how long he would have lived is very open to speculation. It's probably fair to assume, given his erratic and demanding living and working patterns, that he won't have a particularly long innings. If he makes it healthily to 61, he will have had long enough to make his mark on Mexico, but beyond that who knows?

Would the Austrians consent for Napoleon II to take up the Mexican throne in his father's wake? I'd doubt it. Once Napoleon goes, you'd maybe have a rather interesting succession crisis where the sole heir is kept locked up in Austria. If the Austrians can eventually be pursuaded to release Napoleon/Franz, he's going to turn up in Mexico to a country astonishingly difficult to govern, particularly for a boy who had spent most of his life confined from the public eye. Whetever Mexican legislature there is will usurp so many powers from the Emperor that at best he will be a figurehead.

From what I've read Napoleon II was as ambitious as his father, but getting the Austrians to release him might be trouble. Napoleon's son might be able to pick up where his daddy left off. We really don't know anything about Napoleon II, so he's open to interpretation for the large part.
 
It's an interesting scenario, and one that I think is fully plausible. Napoleon goes to exile in the USA until a time at which Iturbide asks for some European monarch to assume the throne. He might even directly ask Napoleon. The thing is I don't think this will solve all of Mexico's problems. There are still sure to be people unhappy with a monarchy, while Napoleon did show himself as a successful leader, France and Mexico are two different places. Also, the Mexican-American War would be a far more interesting one, I still am not sure who would win. Napoleon's military reforms would help Mexico, but they lost badly IOTL.

It could have gone either way in the Mexican-American War, but the US won. Back in the day, the US Army wasn't very big and it's troops were for the most part untested. The Mexicans simply lacked a stable leadership. If Napoleon, with decades of military and political experience, were able to lead, he might be able to get them whipped up pretty quickly. Something also to consider is how big a name Napoleon was back then. Everyone had to have heard of him, and the Mexicans might like being under that strong of a name. The US might also be a bit intimidated. They're going up against freaking Napoleon Bonaparte. That's got to be at least a little demoralizing considering his record.
 
Help would be appreciated also, as I'm working on drafting an Enoch Johnson Political Dynasty TL with JoeMulk and would rather do Napoleon's Mexico in tandem with a partner.

I have a lot of stellar ideas up to World War II. Inbox me or reply to this thread.
 
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