AHC/PC: Austria-Poland?

With a POD post-1700 and pre-1900 is there a way for a personal or political union (akin to Prussia-Poland from Glen's DoSA TL) to exist between Austria and Poland? Not finding any opportunities so far, so I thought you folks could help.

When could it have happened, how, and what would be some possible results immediately and down the line? What would happen and what would Austria-Poland look/sound like, etc.?

Austria-Poland? Let me hear it.
 

scholar

Banned
They were both Catholic, both powerful, and both at odds with protestants, the orthodox, and the Turks. It isn't impossible and if done within an early POD in the time restriction you can prevent the partitioning of Poland. There will no doubt be a war over the succession/union. With Russia definitely, with Prussia possibly, with France? Maybe. The acquisition of Poland would drastically shift Austria's primary regions of interest. Germany would be a given, but Poland makes it so Russia is a threat and the Osmans are a far more prevalent enemy. France may just let them have Poland for the future headaches and probably numerous wars.

Something like this perhaps? (Just the Austria-Poland, not the outside world, without them getting any more territorial acquisitions).

Austria Poland.png
 
That's bigger than my brain had imagined at first. Thanks for the map!

A few things:

1. When and how would such a thing specifically have been possible?

2. I feel like German Unification under Austria would be even less likely ITTL, right? Possibly coming earlier under Prussia?

3. Would this necessarily have to butterfly away the dual monarchy with Hungary?

4. What would become the major cultural identity of Austria-Poland?
 

scholar

Banned
1. When and how would such a thing specifically have been possible?
It was a lot closer to happening then you could imagine (or at the very least I did). Their was a War of Polish Succession and the Austrian supported Polish King was married to the former heiress to the Austrian Empire. If it hadn't been for the Pragmatic Sanction a union between the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Austria would have been likely. Kill Maria Theresa and a Union happens.

2. I feel like German Unification under Austria would be even less likely ITTL, right? Possibly coming earlier under Prussia?
Brandenburg would likely never become the dominant power in Germany because it would grow primarily off of Polish lands before extending inwards. Prussia would take a serious hit because of this.

3. Would this necessarily have to butterfly away the dual monarchy with Hungary?
It depends, the two would probably be able to be ruled together as one state, though Vienna would most likely be chosen as a capital over anything Poland had to offer. Hell, the Polish Dynasty will probably change their name to Habsburg von Polen because of Habsburg-Lorainne.

4. What would become the major cultural identity of Austria-Poland?
Largely dominated by the culture of Austria, at least at first. Polish identity would be influenced tremendously more so than the other way around.
 
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1. When and how would such a thing specifically have been possible?



Sometime between 1733 and 1740, have an epidemic of some sort carry off Archduchess Maria Theresa and her sister.

Charles VI's next heiress is his niece, Maria Josefa, Electress of Saxony and from 1733 Queen of Poland. She inherits Austria in 1740.
 
2. I feel like German Unification under Austria would be even less likely ITTL, right? Possibly coming earlier under Prussia?

3. Would this necessarily have to butterfly away the dual monarchy with Hungary?

4. What would become the major cultural identity of Austria-Poland?

2: seems unlikely.

assuming the Unification occurs in the early 1700s, Prussia's not going to get the land they would have from the Later Partitions of Poland.

3: seeing as the Circumstances that lead up to that are altered, there will probably be no Dual Monarchy. or at least one with Hungary.

4: Austrian, and as time goes on, some sort of mishmash between Polish, and Austrian.
 
3. Would this necessarily have to butterfly away the dual monarchy with Hungary?

Yes, the Dual Monarchy was the result of a very specific series of events in the mid-19th century.

The Austro-Polish Empire may eventually take on a more federative structure, but the Dual Monarchy will never develop ITTL.
 
Thanks for the help, guys.

I was thinking of incorporating this into an Anglo-Prussian Union TL I've been working on which is why I asked about German Unification. Any thoughts on that?
 

scholar

Banned
Thanks for the help, guys.

I was thinking of incorporating this into an Anglo-Prussian Union TL I've been working on which is why I asked about German Unification. Any thoughts on that?
George II marries Louisa Ulrika. Frederik II dies in his early twenties while serving in the military. Augustus William marries Elisabeth Christine instead and never have children (same as Frederik II). Henry and Augustus Ferdinand die from a passing sickness as they are both young. Granted, it requires three deaths and one never having children which isn't exactly plausible.

You could have George III have only daughters, one of which marries the only son of Frederik II. It puts a Prussian monarch on the British throne again, and this new dynamic will most likely have lasting repercussions. I.E. The United States doesn't form or doesn't form the same way.
 
George II marries Louisa Ulrika. Frederik II dies in his early twenties while serving in the military. Augustus William marries Elisabeth Christine instead and never have children (same as Frederik II). Henry and Augustus Ferdinand die from a passing sickness as they are both young. Granted, it requires three deaths and one never having children which isn't exactly plausible.

You could have George III have only daughters, one of which marries the only son of Frederik II. It puts a Prussian monarch on the British throne again, and this new dynamic will most likely have lasting repercussions. I.E. The United States doesn't form or doesn't form the same way.

I'm going the Frederick and Sophia route but I was more asking about what an Anglo-Prussian Union and an Austria-Poland in one TL would look like. It's an interesting dynamic.
 
I'm skeptical about these. Other major European powers wouldn't allow such a balance of power upset, and Polish nobility would gladly support them for the fears of absolutism.
I see Prussia+Russia+France+Polish rebels dragging Stanislaw Leszczynski from Lorraine to Polish throne once again.
 
I'm skeptical about these. Other major European powers wouldn't allow such a balance of power upset, and Polish nobility would gladly support them for the fears of absolutism.
I see Prussia+Russia+France+Polish rebels dragging Stanislaw Leszczynski from Lorraine to Polish throne once again.


Couldn't Prussia be bought off with some Polish land - West Orussia and maybe Courland?
 
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