AHC: Pax Belgio?

Could a union between Netherlands and Hannover be a good thing for solidifying Dutch position on the continent?
 
I disagree with that. The biggest problem of the republic was that they only cared for money. Of course that was part of their greatest strengths, it meant they realy did have a lot of money, but they ignored everything else. They more or less disbanded and ignored the army and navy after the Dutch revolt; they found out it wasn't a good idea the hard way during the first Anglo-Dutch war and Franco-Dutch war.

part of the massive Army and Navy restrictions were part of the power struggle, wish i had my copy of 'The Dutch Republic, it's rise, greatness and fall' on hand, since it features exact numbers of Dutch army strength in 1640, the numbers included in the proposed army reduction, and the extreme army reduction enacted after Willem II's almost succesfull coup attempt (smallpox caused it to fail, and we dodged a massive bullet there). The numbers were something like: 1640: almost 80000 men, proposed 35000 men, post-coup: less than 20000 men. But without the book i can't be exactly sure wether those numbers are correct.

Naval strength was destroyed by greed however. The Admiralties selling almost all their ships, especially the big ones was a stupid move. At the start of the first Anglo-Dutch war the Brederode was our most powerfull ship, at least 18 English ships had more firepower than that vessel, a serious oversight, especially since few Dutch ships came close to Brederode's firepower. Tromp really saved the Dutch Republic during that war. What I know for sure is that the Dutch fleet numbered 79 warships at the start of the war with only 2/3s of that seaworthy. Though due to rising tensions with the English they were converting 150 merchantmen into warships, the war began before those were ready.

So looking back at my post, I think we both are right, Caring for money led to unacceptable budgetcuts, and the sudden States General victory in the power struggle led to even worse reductions.
 
Could a union between Netherlands and Hannover be a good thing for solidifying Dutch position on the continent?
Hannover would be an interesting candidate for a union. Not important enough to dominate a union, probably not big enough for the Netherlands to become German instead of Dutch and close enough to form an actual union, both in distance as in cultural and linguistic sense. The problem though with personal unions with the Dutch republic is that they are never truely personal unions. The Dutch stadholder is not the equivalent of a king (or count/Duke/prince/etc). First of all until 1747 not all provinces had the same stadholder. William III, the stadholder king, was only stadholder of 5 of the 7 Dutch provinces. Next until 1747 the stadholdership was not heriditairy. If it was the ruler of Prussia would have become stadholder after Willem III died. Thirdly although the stadholders were very influential, they had far less power than a king usualy had. Some of them barely had any power, actually sometimes Dutch provinces even decided not to appoint a stadholder.

So although I like the idea of a Dutch Hannover union, it will be hard to get one and it might not lead to the effect you expect it to lead to. For that you realy need to change the Dutch republican system.

So looking back at my post, I think we both are right, Caring for money led to unacceptable budgetcuts, and the sudden States General victory in the power struggle led to even worse reductions.
The power struggle was bad too, especially during the 18th century. Basicly the internal politics during the entire existance of the Dutch republic was a power struggle between the stadholder and the regents. Even during the Dutch revolt it existed.

In my opinion the internal politics of the republic should be changed before you can have a stronger Netherlands.In the end it was just a broken and corrupt system. That is why I always suggest a Dutch state (republican or not) that includes Antwerp and a decent part of Flanders (at least Gent, Brugge and Oostende) as equal provinces to balance out the influence of the mercants of Holland. That alone would shift Dutch politics in such a way that could lead to a stronger Netherlands. But another POD leading to a different political system could also work.
 
In my opinion the early days of the Dutch revolution would be enough. Make sure a large part of Flanders and Brabant remains part of the Netherlands.

I agree, IMHO ideally all the XVII Netherlands should stay united. So you want the merchants of Flanders (Gent & Brugge) and Brabant (Antwerpen) to balance the merchants of Holland. It could be a Dutch revolt, but even earlier PODs are possible, like a survival of the house of Valois-Burgundy, Mary the Rich marrying someone else, no Habsburg Spain etc. A republic IMHO isn't necessary, the British IOTL were quite successful as a monarchy.
 
It could be a Dutch revolt, but even earlier PODs are possible, like a survival of the house of Valois-Burgundy, Mary the Rich marrying someone else, no Habsburg Spain etc.
Possible, but if you want a strong Netherlands you want to avoid this Netherlands turning into Germany or just becoming part of Germany. The seperate Dutch identity came into existance during the Dutch revolt, so if you create a POD before the Dutch revolt, you need to create another reason to create the Dutch identity. Not impossible, certainly considering the German identity was not that developed in those days, but harder. That is why I prefer a POD during the Dutch revolt.
 
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I agree with Pompejus. And please make it a republic?

the Netherlands was a republic until the early 1800s.

A stadtholder essentially is some kind of president, completely with the limitations of power. (it turned into a hereditary function though).

Actually, I believe that Parliament INVITED him in. Remember that it wasn't William as monarch, but "William and Mary".

Not much inviting needed anyways, Mary was the first in line of succession and William was the 2nd in line of succession to the british throne.
 
I know that. That's why I love the Netherlands of those days.
Personaly I don't realy care about how the Dutch republic worked. It was rather corrupt. Still I like the idea that the Netherlands was a republic in the days that almost all other countries were monarchies and now is a monarchy while almost all other countries are republics.
 
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