AHC: Old Church Slavonic and Greek as the basis of the Standardization of Romanian

IOTL, in the 19th century during the Romanian National Awakening the language was changed and many Slavic, Turkic, Hungarian and also some heavily changed Latin words have been replaced by Italian, Latian and most of all French words. What if this either didn´t happen or happened but Old Church Slavonic, Greek or even Russian were used instead?

If you need a different political situation I think you can use a POD up to the end of the 30 years war. If you really need more room then I guess the end of the Byzantine Empire or even just after the Black Death are options, but don´t go before the Mongols. That time period is a mystery to me.
 
The main obstacle there would be that Vallachia and Moldava are basically the buffer-zone of northern Balkans : everyone get a share and loose it after a while, making likely the appearance of more or less independent entities with their own chanceries and institutions. Eventually, you may need to prevent the apperance of Romanian principalties in the XIIIth century or rather, need to make sure they're firmly tied to another power.

While, after Golden Horde retreat, the best candidate would be an Hungarian overlordship, it might only be a blunder for what you seek, only having more Magyar and Latin influence.

A Serbian Empire on steroids could do, but I think having a revival of the Second Bulgarian Empire that would keep most of Theodoros Svetoslav mindset, and less interested on expending that much at the expense of Byzantine Empire (maybe stronger Byzzies?). I don't know much about this place at this period, tough, to propose a clear PoD. Does that sounds right?
 
IOTL, in the 19th century during the Romanian National Awakening the language was changed and many Slavic, Turkic, Hungarian and also some heavily changed Latin words have been replaced by Italian, Latian and most of all French words. What if this either didn´t happen or happened but Old Church Slavonic, Greek or even Russian were used instead?.
No inspiration for a PoD, but first of all, Romanian would be written in modernised Cyrillic today.
Reducing French and Neo-Latin influences is difficult because it happened elsewhere, too, during the 19th century. The new words for scienfic concepts, technological innovations, cultural creations etc. couldn`t be taken from Old Church Slavonic or Russian, when these ideas seeped in mostly from Britain and France, where Neo-Latin and Neo-Greek words were coined (and still are today, e.g. "transcultural", "homophobia" etc.).
Romanian intellectual elites had a fad for French, true, but how deep did this reach?
"Straightening out" changed Latin words basically concerned the written standardised forms.
A bit less French and a bit more of the other influences in the mix would make the language recognisably different, of course. To illustrate it, I´d have to write two Romanian texts next to each other: one in OTL Romanian and one with less French influences and less Latin-straightening-out. Unfortunately, I don`t have time for that...
 
No inspiration for a PoD, but first of all, Romanian would be written in modernised Cyrillic today.
Reducing French and Neo-Latin influences is difficult because it happened elsewhere, too, during the 19th century. The new words for scienfic concepts, technological innovations, cultural creations etc. couldn`t be taken from Old Church Slavonic or Russian, when these ideas seeped in mostly from Britain and France, where Neo-Latin and Neo-Greek words were coined (and still are today, e.g. "transcultural", "homophobia" etc.).
Romanian intellectual elites had a fad for French, true, but how deep did this reach?
"Straightening out" changed Latin words basically concerned the written standardised forms.
A bit less French and a bit more of the other influences in the mix would make the language recognisably different, of course. To illustrate it, I´d have to write two Romanian texts next to each other: one in OTL Romanian and one with less French influences and less Latin-straightening-out. Unfortunately, I don`t have time for that...
Frankly, it´s an hyperbole to compare Latin influence on other languages to the re latinization of Romanian, Romanian did have loan words from all over the place for many things so it didn´t really need latin on the first place and talking in general now, if you don´t have a word for something you can just construct it with words you do have, like Latin and Greek probably did with new concepts.
 
The main obstacle there would be that Vallachia and Moldava are basically the buffer-zone of northern Balkans : everyone get a share and loose it after a while, making likely the appearance of more or less independent entities with their own chanceries and institutions. Eventually, you may need to prevent the apperance of Romanian principalties in the XIIIth century or rather, need to make sure they're firmly tied to another power.

While, after Golden Horde retreat, the best candidate would be an Hungarian overlordship, it might only be a blunder for what you seek, only having more Magyar and Latin influence.

A Serbian Empire on steroids could do, but I think having a revival of the Second Bulgarian Empire that would keep most of Theodoros Svetoslav mindset, and less interested on expending that much at the expense of Byzantine Empire (maybe stronger Byzzies?). I don't know much about this place at this period, tough, to propose a clear PoD. Does that sounds right?
Is there a reason that you need them not to be a buffer zone? I thought what you need was pretty much a weaker bond with the West and a stronger Orthodox and less Roman/Latin-centric identity, I guess independence would be a way to do that.

Wouldn´t Hungary led to a Catholicization of the place and more Latin?

A Neo Byzantine Empire in the form of a Slavic country going nuts would work but maybe you enter the problem of Romania wanting to distiguish itself from them later on.



What would the language be called other than Romanian?
 
Is there a reason that you need them not to be a buffer zone? I thought what you need was pretty much a weaker bond with the West and a stronger Orthodox and less Roman/Latin-centric identity, I guess independence would be a way to do that.
It was less a buffer-zone between West and East, and more of one between Balkans and Ukraine, basically the doorway to any regional hegeomny in there. Because of this, it tended to be sattelized/vassalized/marchialized a lot, but never really conquered : allowing the development of proper institutions including chanceries (and eventually independent cultural centers). Any real independence would mean that Romanian would have an institutional status.

Wouldn´t Hungary led to a Catholicization of the place and more Latin?
Indeed, but that was my whole point there : Hungary is the most likely candidate in a reckognizable TL to takeover Vallachia and Modlova so you have to have a PoD not centered in Romania proper, but rather focusing on Vallachia's southern neighbours.

A Neo Byzantine Empire in the form of a Slavic country going nuts would work but maybe you enter the problem of Romania wanting to distiguish itself from them later on.
Most probably, but that's not a problem regarding your OP : what you asked is a *Romanian language with stronger slavic influence and for its standardization. More *Romanian cultural standards are dominated or relatively secondary to anothers (in this case, slavic) more odds for any *Romanian linguistical renaissance to be made along these lines (not a guarantee, that's right).

What would the language be called other than Romanian?
Vallachian could be an obvious choice, but depending what are the cultural reference of *Romanian proto-nationalism it could go trough "Dacian", "Muntenian" or "Boièr" (trough a similar identification to a social class as "Ruman" was IOTL). Even Romanian wouldn't be that surprising of a choice IMO.
 
It was less a buffer-zone between West and East, and more of one between Balkans and Ukraine, basically the doorway to any regional hegeomny in there. Because of this, it tended to be sattelized/vassalized/marchialized a lot, but never really conquered : allowing the development of proper institutions including chanceries (and eventually independent cultural centers). Any real independence would mean that Romanian would have an institutional status.
Oh I see, good point.

Indeed, but that was my whole point there : Hungary is the most likely candidate in a reckognizable TL to takeover Vallachia and Modlova so you have to have a PoD not centered in Romania proper, but rather focusing on Vallachia's southern neighbours.
Yeah but if I needed a more stronger Greek or Slavic influence I would probably need stronger Orthodox Christianity and this means I can´t really give ground to the Hungarians, if not Orthodox(and I think they can´t be easily converted at that point?)

Most probably, but that's not a problem regarding your OP : what you asked is a *Romanian language with stronger slavic influence and for its standardization. More *Romanian cultural standards are dominated or relatively secondary to anothers (in this case, slavic) more odds for any *Romanian linguistical renaissance to be made along these lines (not a guarantee, that's right).
Maybe you don´t even need a conquest, the neo-Byzantine empire just needs to be strong and to be a cultural center, this way OC Slavonic and Greek would naturally be take into Romanian.

Vallachian could be an obvious choice, but depending what are the cultural reference of *Romanian proto-nationalism it could go trough "Dacian", "Muntenian" or "Boièr" (trough a similar identification to a social class as "Ruman" was IOTL). Even Romanian wouldn't be that surprising of a choice IMO.
Yeah I know, but "Romanian" seem such a cheap name, like the other languages like "Romansch", "Aromanian", "Ladin", "Ladino" and such. They just seem so unoriginal.

Vallachian is perfect, a Germanic loanword into Slavic becoming a loanword into Romanian, that´s just perfect.
 
Yeah but if I needed a more stronger Greek or Slavic influence I would probably need stronger Orthodox Christianity and this means I can´t really give ground to the Hungarians, if not Orthodox(and I think they can´t be easily converted at that point?)
I'm confused : that's exactly what I was saying in these two posts. You have to prevent Hungarians to come in the region, and that's possible only with a PoD regarding either Serbian or Bulgarian Empire.

Maybe you don´t even need a conquest, the neo-Byzantine empire just needs to be strong and to be a cultural center, this way OC Slavonic and Greek would naturally be take into Romanian.
Maybe indeed, but vassalized Valachians polities would then devellop their own chanceries : meaning that it could allow them to devellop some, if secondary, linguistic standards and centers. You'd need then to have these centers being clearly dominated by the Slavic Byzantine Empire, that would not only needs to be strong, but keep tabs on Vallachian entities as well.
 
I'm confused : that's exactly what I was saying in these two posts. You have to prevent Hungarians to come in the region, and that's possible only with a PoD regarding either Serbian or Bulgarian Empire.


Maybe indeed, but vassalized Valachians polities would then devellop their own chanceries : meaning that it could allow them to devellop some, if secondary, linguistic standards and centers. You'd need then to have these centers being clearly dominated by the Slavic Byzantine Empire, that would not only needs to be strong, but keep tabs on Vallachian entities as well.
Maybe I just misunderstood you, lol.


Well it´s kinda natural a neo-Byzantine Empire would influence Vlachian, I mean Hungary if it´s not conquering the region probably isn´t and also the only other neighbour other than Tatars(that woulnd´t influence much) area Poland and Ruthenian principalities, while Poland could bring Latin with it, I think it would be more prone to have Slavic influence on the region, in any case Ruthenians are probably going to have the desired effect given how influential OC Slavonic was for Eastern Slavic, especially Russian.
 
Maybe I just misunderstood you, lol.
It seems so ;)

I think it would be more prone to have Slavic influence on the region, in any case Ruthenians are probably going to have the desired effect given how influential OC Slavonic was for Eastern Slavic, especially Russian.
Didn't tought of the Russian option, indeed.

That said, Ruthenia is a doorway between Latin and Eastern Europe in the Middle-Ages with Daniel I, for exemple, making some tentatives (even if reallt sketchy) to become closer of Rome. It's still a pretty viable possibility you bring there, but I'm not sure it would be as safe as with a Bulgarian Empire.
 
That said, Ruthenia is a doorway between Latin and Eastern Europe in the Middle-Ages with Daniel I, for exemple, making some tentatives (even if reallt sketchy) to become closer of Rome. It's still a pretty viable possibility you bring there, but I'm not sure it would be as safe as with a Bulgarian Empire.
Avoiding the re-latinization alone is probably going to have a big effect, so even not actively put more Slavic or Greek into Vlachian is fine. I find hard to believe that Ruthenia would bring Latin back to Vlachia but I guess it depends on how strong the East or the West are, so maybe having a Wallachia puppet of neo-Byzantium and Moldavia puppet of a big East Slavic country would led to have both areas influenced by OC Slavonic and Greek given that for Ruthenia neo-Byzantium would be what France was for many countries in Europe.
 
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