AHC: Non-white Europe

Brunaburh

Gone Fishin'
What if the One Drop Rule is used to determine whiteness.

Then there are no white people in Europe today, or indeed anywhere. Every living European has sub-saharan Africans born after Christ among their ancestors.

This whole topic is missing the point that whiteness is not an objective criteria. Anybody who has visited both North Africa and a Yorkshire village in the 80's before modern mass immigration touched the area can see that 60% of the North Africans could have been born in Yorkshire and 99% of the Yorkshire(wo)men could have been born in North Africa. Of course, we can tell which group is which as a group, but individuals, not so much.

If you do the same between villages in Sicily and Tunisia, you would have a job even differentiating groups, yet modern Americans (and many French, strangely) would consider all of one group white, and all the other non-white. This would not be true of 19th century Americans, who would classify all the Italians and 99% of the Tunisians as white. Most British people, however, might start to place a third or so of each group into the category "Asian" until they found out where they were from, after which they would decide that all the Italians were white, but only most of the Tunisians. In Switzerland, not even Kosovars are white.

So, having a slightly darker average European skin colour is possible with various pod's, even as late as the medieval period, but there is no guarantee white people ever evolve in this situation, as the emergence of the cultural category of "white" is not preordained or inevitable in any way.
 

Brunaburh

Gone Fishin'
Since everyone's ancestry can be traced to Africa, the "one drop rule" would mean that 100% of the human race is non-white. Admittedly, that would be one way of fulfilling the challenge.

Even later than that. There has been enough traffic across the Sahara and Mediterranean to ensure that every single European has many individual ancestors from black Africa in their gene pool. All you need is one or two individuals being reproductively successful during the Roman Empire or early Moorish Spain and we would all be descended from them. It's certain that most Andalusians and Portuguese will descend in a tiny measure to the large 16th century black populations of those areas.
 
If there a nuclear war I doubt many colonies are going remain under European control
I mean, if you've got a reasonably intact and legitimate government in the metropole, why not? There will be some difficulty, yes, but assuming none of the locals mount a successful rebellion and the colonies don't get hit too hard, a European state could hang on to a decent portion of its empire. Mind, direct control isn't necessarily necessary--this immigration could also be facilitated through some sort of post-colonial supranational union like the Commonwealth.
 
White people did really exist in large numbers in China,India,Middle East,North Africa and Central Asia before the Turkic/Mongol expansion. The only problem I see in this thread is Non White Europe requires too much violence.
What the hell are you on about? Are you really suggesting that there were majority "white" (whatever that's supposed to mean in this time period) areas in China, India, MENA, and Central Asia? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Aryans were not "white".
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
What the hell are you on about? Are you really suggesting that there were majority "white" (whatever that's supposed to mean in this time period) areas in China, India, MENA, and Central Asia? Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Aryans were not "white".
Tocharians,Indo-Iranians(of which Indo-Aryans are a part),Scythians were white and originated in the Caucasus eventually migrating in the Indo-European migrations. Hittites in the Middle East were too. Hurrians,Urartians,Gutians were all White. Even their descendants today Levantine Christians and Jews are.
 
Tocharians,Indo-Iranians(of which Indo-Aryans are a part),Scythians were white and originated in the Caucasus eventually migrating in the Indo-European migrations. Hittites in the Middle East were too. Hurrians,Urartians,Gutians were all White. Even their descendants today Levantine Christians and Jews are.
Define "White"
 
And also, Caucasian is not really a thing either (though it is slightly more objective in descriptive terms).
Indeed. Though I do wonder if the revelation that Aborigines would have to be classed as Black Caucasian had something to do with dropping it rather than just realising phenotypes and their combinations occurred across too many populations to be scientifically useful.
 
Indeed. Though I do wonder if the revelation that Aborigines would have to be classed as Black Caucasian had something to do with dropping it rather than just realising phenotypes and their combinations occurred across too many populations to be scientifically useful.
I think the old "Caucasoid" classification didn't interest itself with skin color anyway.
 
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My dad who is light skin and comes from a rather European looking family always said in a cheeky tone "Africa starts at the Pyrenees" whenever the conversation of Iberians came up.

Of course he wasn't completely serious but it goes to show notions of whiteness were tenuous to Northwest Europeans. Even by people legally and socially not white themselves.

Am I the only one who finds these sort of threads a little bit disturbing?

Imagine all the ATL scenarios people put about blacks on here and you'll get an inkling of what I deal with on here.

Welcome to the Cringe of AH™ your gift basket will be coming through the mail shortly.
 
My dad who is light skin and comes from a rather European looking family always said in a cheeky tone "Africa starts at the Pyrenees" whenever the conversation of Iberians came up.

The son of a Latin American author (Mario Vargas Llosa, IIRC) once claimed he had met people in Britain who thought that the Continentals were practically colored.
 
Am I the only one who finds these sort of threads a little bit disturbing?

They're messed up, but I'm not too fussed after seeing more than a few threads about "how to make the Confederacy win" or "how to get a whiter world (btw totally not racist though I believe Europeans are inherently suprerior)???"
 
Even later than that. There has been enough traffic across the Sahara and Mediterranean to ensure that every single European has many individual ancestors from black Africa in their gene pool. All you need is one or two individuals being reproductively successful during the Roman Empire or early Moorish Spain and we would all be descended from them. It's certain that most Andalusians and Portuguese will descend in a tiny measure to the large 16th century black populations of those areas.
Are you sure about that? It's plausible for every Southern Europe, but does every Estonian or Russian ,for example, have black African ancestry? Do you know a study which confirms that?
 
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