One thing that I've always found interesting about Japanese history (a subject I'm really unknowledgable about admittedly), is that they've had a single ruling dynasty for pretty much their entire history, even if that dynasty was powerless of much of it. Yes, they were seen as divine, but so were Chinese emperors, Egyptian pharaohs and Merovingian kings but none of their dynasties lasted for two thousand years. So my question is, is it possible for the Yamato dynasty to be dethroned? And what would happen if the Yamato dynasty was overthrown or died out? Would Japan break apart or would the Shogun take the throne? Or would the position of emperor cease to exist and the Shogun would just remain the leader? What about if the demise of the dynasty happens before the Shogunate period, does the title go to some other noble family in Japan?
 
Hard to imagine, given how important the Emperor is... I've had my Japanese friends, all millennials, tell me that Japan literally could not exist without the Yamato Dynasty.
 
The early Ashikaga had the power and popularity to dethrone the Emperor and also had a very Sinophile ideology with the Mandate of Heaven and all...but it would've gained them nothing since the Yamato dynasty had so little power yet the act of dethroning them would result in some powerful enemies (which probably could be subdued).

The Mongols might also dethrone the Yamato dynasty if they suceeded in invading Japan but a Yamato dynasty "King of Japan" would be too useful to ignore.
 
[QUOTE="ArchimedesCircle, post: 16235331, member: 89530" Yes, they were seen as divine, but so were Chinese emperors, Egyptian pharaohs and Merovingian kings but none of their dynasties lasted for two thousand years. So my question is, is it possible for the Yamato dynasty to be dethroned? And what would happen if the Yamato dynasty was overthrown or died out? Would Japan break apart or would the Shogun take the throne? Or would the position of emperor cease to exist and the Shogun would just remain the leader? What about if the demise of the dynasty happens before the Shogunate period, does the title go to some other noble family in Japan?[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by the Yamato dynasty is the big question here. Like the Rurikids of Russia the Yamato has plenty of cadet branches, so the main dying branch out could see that replaced with another branch. As for the consequences, it would depend on when. By the time of the Shogunate, it would not matter as the emperors held no power anyway, while before or after could see another related family put on the throne. Although the Nothern and Southern Courts period actually saw the main branch get usurped with their usurpers still ruling to this day.
 
The early Ashikaga had the power and popularity to dethrone the Emperor and also had a very Sinophile ideology with the Mandate of Heaven and all...but it would've gained them nothing since the Yamato dynasty had so little power yet the act of dethroning them would result in some powerful enemies (which probably could be subdued).

The Mongols might also dethrone the Yamato dynasty if they suceeded in invading Japan but a Yamato dynasty "King of Japan" would be too useful to ignore.
Arguably,a lot of people in China could have done the same thing like in Japan,but for many usurpers,the allure of being emperor was too great to resist. There’s also the problem that in terms of legitimacy,people can always rebel in the name of ‘rescuing’ the emperor.I think the real problem is that the longer the dynasty is in control,the harder it is to actually usurp the throne.Whereas in China,after the Han Dynasty,Dynasties rarely last more than three hundred years.Once the precedence of the throne getting usurped is established,you will likely find far less reluctance to accept a new dynasty.
 
Taira no Masakado is an interesting person to consider. In 939, He led a rebellion aiming independence or demand for better treatment of Kanto region. As a great-great-grandson of Emperor Kanmu, he claimed himself as Shinnō, new Emperor.

Masakado's rebellion was short-lived, two months after his proclamation, he was killed. But Fujiwara no Sumitomo led a rebellion at Seto Inland Sea same time, so Yamato dynasty was pretty shaken by the future possibility of well-thought-out rebellion.

If Masakado and Sumitomo succeeded, they can replace Yamato dynasty with Taira dynasty, or samurai class can rise earlier as the dominant force of Japan.
 
Taira no Masakado is an interesting person to consider. In 939, He led a rebellion aiming independence or demand for better treatment of Kanto region. As a great-great-grandson of Emperor Kanmu, he claimed himself as Shinnō, new Emperor.

Masakado's rebellion was short-lived, two months after his proclamation, he was killed. But Fujiwara no Sumitomo led a rebellion at Seto Inland Sea same time, so Yamato dynasty was pretty shaken by the future possibility of well-thought-out rebellion.

If Masakado and Sumitomo succeeded, they can replace Yamato dynasty with Taira dynasty, or samurai class can rise earlier as the dominant force of Japan.
I don’t think that classifies as a new dynasty since the Tairas are just a cadet branch of the Yamato Dynasty.
 
I don’t think that classifies as a new dynasty since the Tairas are just a cadet branch of the Yamato Dynasty.

Before Sengoku period
Fujiwara clan was allowed to marry princess of Emperor. And Fujiwara no Fuhito, ancestor of Fujiwara clan was rumored as a son of Emperor Tenji due to his quick rise to power. Beside Fujiwara clan wielded power through Emperor, their son-in-law.
Taira no Kiyomori is a descendant of Emperor Kanmu.
Minamoto no Yoritomo is a descendant of Emperor Seiwa.
Hōjō clan, shikken of the Kamakura shogunate is a descendant of Emperor Kanmu.
Ashikaga Takauji is a descendant of Emperor Seiwa.

After Sengoku period
Miyoshi Nagayoshi is a descendant of Emperor Seiwa.
Oda Nobunaga is a self-claimed descendant of Emperor Kanmu.
Toyotomi Hideyoshi is a son of a farmer.
Tokugawa Ieyasu is a descendant of a vassal of Ise Clan and tried to refer himself as a descendant of Emperor Seiwa.

Powerful figures before Sengoku period were descendants of Emperor, or tied themselves to Yamato dynasty. So it is difficult to establish a new dynasty which has no tie to Yamato dynasty.

Nagayoshi died of disease and Miyoshi clan fell to infighting. Nobunaga was killed by betrayal, and Yamato dynasty is strongly suspected behind Honnō-ji incident. Hideyoshi and Ieyasu tried to use Yamato Dynasty's authority instead.

A simple POD can pretty much change the entire course of Sengoku period, the winner has a chance to become Emperor, but the cost may be too high.
 
Yamato is a state..so a Japan with a different name will have a different endonym just like Korea had a different endonym with its many dynasty.
 
I don’t think that classifies as a new dynasty since the Tairas are just a cadet branch of the Yamato Dynasty.

Well, each French dynasty was (or at least claimed to be) a cadet branch of the previous one. And even if the Tairas are a cadet branch, once the emperor is seen as replaceable it opens the doors for other nobles to try to take the throne.
 
Before Sengoku period
Fujiwara clan was allowed to marry princess of Emperor. And Fujiwara no Fuhito, ancestor of Fujiwara clan was rumored as a son of Emperor Tenji due to his quick rise to power. Beside Fujiwara clan wielded power through Emperor, their son-in-law.
Taira no Kiyomori is a descendant of Emperor Kanmu.
Minamoto no Yoritomo is a descendant of Emperor Seiwa.
Hōjō clan, shikken of the Kamakura shogunate is a descendant of Emperor Kanmu.
Ashikaga Takauji is a descendant of Emperor Seiwa.

After Sengoku period
Miyoshi Nagayoshi is a descendant of Emperor Seiwa.
Oda Nobunaga is a self-claimed descendant of Emperor Kanmu.
Toyotomi Hideyoshi is a son of a farmer.
Tokugawa Ieyasu is a descendant of a vassal of Ise Clan and tried to refer himself as a descendant of Emperor Seiwa.

Powerful figures before Sengoku period were descendants of Emperor, or tied themselves to Yamato dynasty. So it is difficult to establish a new dynasty which has no tie to Yamato dynasty.

Nagayoshi died of disease and Miyoshi clan fell to infighting. Nobunaga was killed by betrayal, and Yamato dynasty is strongly suspected behind Honnō-ji incident. Hideyoshi and Ieyasu tried to use Yamato Dynasty's authority instead.

A simple POD can pretty much change the entire course of Sengoku period, the winner has a chance to become Emperor, but the cost may be too high.

Well, each French dynasty was (or at least claimed to be) a cadet branch of the previous one. And even if the Tairas are a cadet branch, once the emperor is seen as replaceable it opens the doors for other nobles to try to take the throne.
Which is why Capetian rule never died out until 1848.OP is talking about someone completely unrelated to the House of Yamato taking over.If it’s about a cadet branch taking over through usurpation of the throne,it’s been done already.The current emperor descends from the usurper that the Ashikagas set up.
 
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Which is why Capetian rule never died out until 1848.OP is talking about someone completely unrelated to the House of Yamato taking over.If it’s about a vadet branch taking over through usurpation of the throne,it’s been done already.The current emperor descends from the usurper that the Ashikagas set up.
Would it be possible for the Ahsikagas to just declare themselves emperor?
 
Would it be possible for the Ahsikagas to just declare themselves emperor?

No, the Ashikaga were figureheads themselves with slightly more power than the emperor. There are few powerful Sengoku clans that do not trace their lineage to one branch of the Imperial Family or the other, and the Ashikaga were descended from the Seiwa Genji, as in they were descendants of Emperor Seiwa. The Nagao/Uesugi could work but that would require a real stretch in PoD's, as almost every other powerful clan save maybe the Hojo if you count descent patrilineally claim descent and the Ukita, have Imperial blood in their veins somewhere.
 
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