AHC: No wedges in the '70s

I, personally, like the 70's...

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If only Citroen took over or even further collaborated with NSU on developing a larger engine, apparently during the Ro80's development NSU looked at a conventional Flat-Six engine until it was shelved by NSU officials who found it undesirable and switched instead to the Wankel engine.
I'd have gone the other way: give NSU a platform for a mass-market Wankel before Mazda, in something like the GS.
 
A further thought or two... Could Innocenti have introduced a 4-door Mini (prototyped by BMC)? Could Ferrari have built a V8-powered *Dino 246?:cool: Or a 365-powered *308?:eek: (I know of one hot rodder who built one...)
 
A further thought or two... Could Innocenti have introduced a 4-door Mini (prototyped by BMC)? Could Ferrari have built a V8-powered *Dino 246?:cool: Or a 365-powered *308?:eek: (I know of one hot rodder who built one...)

The ingredients were already there to develop a 4/5-door Mini via the Minivan / Estate wheelbase, whether Innocenti was capable of developing such a model on its own is another matter.

As for Ferrari do not really know to be honest, am after a comprehensive book or few about the marque that delves into projects as such the Ferrarina (ASA 1000 GT) and even more obscure prototypes.
 
A further thought or two... Could Innocenti have introduced a 4-door Mini (prototyped by BMC)? Could Ferrari have built a V8-powered *Dino 246?:cool: Or a 365-powered *308?:eek: (I know of one hot rodder who built one...)

A V8-powered Dino would be a tight fit, but if you got the engine designed for compact dimensions (meaning 308/328 series) you could make it work. A Daytona-powered 308 wouldn't work because V12s are too long to fit in transverse engine mounts (Lamborghini Miura excepted, and that car was quite flawed from a handling perspective) and putting that engine in longitudinally means stretching the back half of the car considerably. Better idea might be using the Daytona engine in the Testarossa instead of the Flat-12 and putting the gearbox between the seats as the Lamborghini Countach and Diablo did, then running the final drive back through the sump. This also gives a benefit of having the center of gravity lower and further forwards, too.

As far as a four-door Mini goes, I never understood why that was never done. Even if the Mini was longer as a result, it's still a tiny car and useful in city situations even if you stretched it by three feet for the extra doors.
 
As far as a four-door Mini goes, I never understood why that was never done. Even if the Mini was longer as a result, it's still a tiny car and useful in city situations even if you stretched it by three feet for the extra doors.

BMC was infamous for being shortsighted regarding such projects and Issigonis in particular preferred clean sheet designs instead of updating existing models, lets not also forget he already had fixed ideas as to what the Mini should be and despite his love for motorsport was even reluctant in sanctioning the Mini Cooper.

It is possible BMC feared a 4-door Mini (with the wheelbase increased by 4-inches) would eat into 1100/1300 ADO16 sales yet the 4-door Mini could have initially been sold with 850-998cc engines, before later receiving 1098-1275cc engines initially appearing on upmarket or performance variants as ADO16 receives larger-engined variants above 1300cc earlier.

http://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/mini-classic/concepts-prototypes-mini-four-door/
 
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I'd have gone the other way: give NSU a platform for a mass-market Wankel before Mazda, in something like the GS.

NSU never did figure out how to make the Wankel rotary a reliable long-term prospect, and doing so nearly bankrupted Mazda so I wouldn't exactly call it a great prospect.

There is a reason why Japanese and German cars earned better reputations in the 1970s over their European and American rivals, and it's all to do with build quality and engineering. Most French and Italian cars of the 1970s and 1980s were reliability nightmares and plagued with corrosion problems, and American cars of the era, while rust was far less of an issue, were very poorly assembled, handled badly and stopped worse and got awful fuel mileage. It was easily possible for all involved to beat that, but the effort would have to be made first.
 
A V8-powered Dino would be a tight fit, but if you got the engine designed for compact dimensions (meaning 308/328 series) you could make it work.
:cool: (Bear in mind, in all cases, I'm presuming the car is engineered for it to start with, & ends up very like the OTL outcome...something I now realize I should have said to start with.:teary:)
A Daytona-powered 308 wouldn't work because V12s are too long to fit in transverse engine mounts
Then I invite you to explain the 365-powered number I've seen in (IIRC) C&D... (Or look here & here. On reading those, however, I suspect saying it was a 365 engine may have been mistaken...:hushedface:)

The handling bugaboos are a separate issue, & I won't disagree on that.
Better idea might be using the Daytona engine in the Testarossa instead of the Flat-12 and putting the gearbox between the seats as the Lamborghini Countach and Diablo did
I do like the idea, tho I'm no particular fan of the TR.
As far as a four-door Mini goes
The one drawback for me is, it buggers the otherwise near-perfect proportions...:teary:
It is possible BMC feared a 4-door Mini (with the wheelbase increased by 4-inches) would eat into 1100/1300 ADO16 sales yet the 4-door Mini could have initially been sold with 850-998cc engines, before later receiving 1098-1275cc engines initially appearing on upmarket or performance variants as ADO16 receives larger-engined variants above 1300cc earlier.

http://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/mini-classic/concepts-prototypes-mini-four-door/
Treat the 4-door like an entry-level ADO16, then? Works for me. (That link's probably where I got the idea.:p)
NSU never did figure out how to make the Wankel rotary a reliable long-term prospect, and doing so nearly bankrupted Mazda so I wouldn't exactly call it a great prospect.
:eek: I didn't realize it was that bad...
 
Treat the 4-door like an entry-level ADO16, then?

Not quite, more a slight upward expansion of the Mini range which is topped by a Mini front-ended 4-door 3-box saloon equivalent of the Wolseley Hornet / Riley Elf (the latter should have really been a 4-door from the outset).
 
Not quite, more a slight upward expansion of the Mini range which is topped by a Mini front-ended 4-door 3-box saloon equivalent of the Wolseley Hornet / Riley Elf (the latter should have really been a 4-door from the outset).
I was thinking price point or market segment.

Mentioning the Hornet & Elf reminded me there were badge-engineered variants; I always forget. You're right, the "up-market" variants should have had a "sedan" option. Especially when the Cooper appears... Seems BMC wasn't watching GM carefully enough.
 
the "up-market" variants should have had a "sedan" option. Especially when the Cooper appears...

The upmarket variants do not have to exclusively be a sedan / saloon in the case of Mini and other BMC models. Also BMC could profit from the Mini and other BMC models by simply re-purposing Vanden Plas to become its own version of Radford and Wood & Pickett as well as take over from Wolseley and Riley at the lower end of the Vanden Plas range, with range-topping Vanden Plas models essentially being special order (perhaps even experimental) one-offs for celebrities and those with money to spend.

In OTL John Cooper brought in Bertone to style a Mini variant known as the Cooper Bertone VIP though BMC forced Cooper to abandon the idea, now what if the moneyed clientele for the ATL Vanden Plas special order models had the option to be able to commission coach-builders such as Bertone and Zagato / etc via BMC to produce more uniquely bodied Vanden Plas versions of the Mini and other BMC products (for a price of course).
 
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