AHC: No Mugabe

Come up with a scenario in which Mugabe never came to power and Rhodesia never became Zimbabwe and describe how history would be different.
 
Have the South African 1981 bombing be more successful, killing off Mugabe and other ZANU-PF party leaders. This cripples the guerrillas but Ian Smith's regime was already weakening at this time, although I can't claim to know much on the topic of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe.
 
I dunno, some burglars come in and whack him in the 80s while he’s taking a shit? The better question is, if no Mugabe, do the British stick around or does someone even worse take his place?
 
I dunno, some burglars come in and whack him in the 80s while he’s taking a shit? The better question is, if no Mugabe, do the British stick around or does someone even worse take his place?

Why would the British stick around? The plan was always to allow Rhodesia to transition from minority to majority rule.

Getting rid of Bob probably isn't that hard, let the Rhodesians take him out in the 1960s or 1970s. Then you'd probably have someone like Josiah Tongogara emerge as a leader (there's speculation that his death in a car accident was orchestrated by Mugabe).

Not sure about his political style but just about anyone would have been better than post-1995 Mugabe.
 
Have the South African 1981 bombing be more successful, killing off Mugabe and other ZANU-PF party leaders. This cripples the guerrillas but Ian Smith's regime was already weakening at this time, although I can't claim to know much on the topic of Rhodesia/Zimbabwe.

Are you sure you've got the date right there? Mugabe was in power by 1980.
 
His predecessor ngabandi sithole, had been turned and participated in the 1978, multi racial government the self styled internal settlement, with bishop musorea, and senator jerimah chirau. Chirau Sithole, muzorewa, and Nkomo, could work together, with Ian Smith.
 
I rather like the idea of Rhodesian Air Force Spitfires or Vampires lobbing a couple of 3 inch rockets through his windows on one of their jolly COIN ops outings.

This fictional Spitfire PR19 would have done the recce work...

38029634_2144457145770410_1826870927833432064_o.jpg
 
It's worth noting that Mugabe is extremely good at avoiding assassination attempts - there were several during the 1980 campaign, and the Rhodesians attempted to kill Mugabe and Nkomo on at least one occasion during the Chimurenga and Mugabe could have well died in jail.

Still, I wonder if a dead Mugabe might well become a martyr of sorts and his memory used to justify the kind of land seizures he himself would conduct. Indeed, people ITTL might speculate on the idea of a surviving Mugabe moderating Zimbabwe. Tongogara would almost certainly have better than Mugabe, for what it's worth.
 

SSJRED

Banned
I rather like the idea of Rhodesian Air Force Spitfires or Vampires lobbing a couple of 3 inch rockets through his windows on one of their jolly COIN ops outings.

This fictional Spitfire PR19 would have done the recce work...

38029634_2144457145770410_1826870927833432064_o.jpg
Fantasizing about white supremacists killing a man trying to fight against it? WTF??
Mugabe wasn't the best but at the end of the day he was fighting something far, far worse.
The Rhodesians were pathetic and vile racists trying to maitain the racist colonial order that treated blacks as second class citizens. I can't help but feel that people with fantasies like yours tend to sympathise with these racist pigs
 
Fantasizing about white supremacists killing a man trying to fight against it? WTF??
Mugabe wasn't the best but at the end of the day he was fighting something far, far worse.
The Rhodesians were pathetic and vile racists trying to maitain the racist colonial order that treated blacks as second class citizens. I can't help but feel that people with fantasies like yours tend to sympathise with these racist pigs
While I have no love for Rhodesia, the OP - as well as those who have seen these TL - has the benefit of hindsight of what Mugabe has done in Zimbabwe and that might be the desire as to why some might wanna see Mugabe die earlier.
 
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SSJRED

Banned
While I have no love for Rhodesia, the OP - as well as those who have seen these TL - has the benefit of hindsight of what Mugabe has done in Zimbabwe and that might be the desire as to why some might wanna see Mugabe die earlier.
You also thave the benefit of hindsight to know that Rhodesia was a racist shithole far worse for balck Zimbaweans who constituite more than 95% of the population.
Mugabe didn't start off "bad". As an activist before the Civil war he was hardly any different from Mandela, he was an inspiration to the majority of blacks and was imprisoned and tortured for speaking his mind. Had the Rhodesians decided to not supress the rights of blacks and had instead tried to achieve a proper comprimise that would have ensured that the black majority could rule, then we would have a very different Zimbabwe. Instead they were willing to fight a civil war to protect white supremacy instead of realising the writing on the wall(which even the racist government in South Africa was able to see)
Saying Stalin(Mugabe) is bad does not make the Nazi's(Rhodesians) good.
 
You also thave the benefit of hindsight to know that Rhodesia was a racist shithole far worse for balck Zimbaweans who constituite more than 95% of the population.
Mugabe didn't start off "bad". As an activist before the Civil war he was hardly any different from Mandela, he was an inspiration to the majority of blacks and was imprisoned and tortured for speaking his mind. Had the Rhodesians decided to not supress the rights of blacks and had instead tried to achieve a proper comprimise that would have ensured that the black majority could rule, then we would have a very different Zimbabwe. Instead they were willing to fight a civil war to protect white supremacy instead of realising the writing on the wall(which even the racist government in South Africa was able to see)
Saying Stalin(Mugabe) is bad does not make the Nazi's(Rhodesians) good.
I'm fully aware of what the Rhodesian government did and about the ZANU-PF as well, I'm simply providing a reason in which someone may want to see Mugabe dead earlier.
 

SSJRED

Banned
I'm fully aware of what the Rhodesian government did and about the ZANU-PF as well, I'm simply providing a reason in which someone may want to see Mugabe dead earlier.
The problem with that is that it will make him a martyr, which might actaully lead to people seeking revenge earlier than in OTL. The reason that Zimababwe turned out differently from SA is because of the exisistence of the civil war and various military groups. This affected politics and leadership style. Anyone who replaces Mugabe will be subject to these same factors. Its hard to imagine a Gukurhundi had there been a peaceful transition.
The only way to get a more peaceful Zimababwe without Mugabe would be for the British invade Rhodesia in the 60's, hang Ian Smith and the other white rebels and force a transition to majority rule.
 

SSJRED

Banned
What could this look like? How could this affect Rhodesia?
Firstly Mugabe's political career would never take off without his political activism. Perhaps he remains a respected nationalist academic.
The british force elections based on universal sufferage but in return puts land reform on the backburner. Perhaps without the scars of the civil war there is less of a push for land reform which will lead to less instability.
In the first election Joshuoa Nkomo ends up leading the country.
Zimbabwe starts to grow quickly without the political and economic instability brought on by the war and sancations.
A functioning, democratic state leads to South Africa becoming even more of a pariah, which leads to even harsher sanctions which will then lead to an earlier end of apartheid.
 
The problem with that is that it will make him a martyr, which might actaully lead to people seeking revenge earlier than in OTL. The reason that Zimababwe turned out differently from SA is because of the exisistence of the civil war and various military groups. This affected politics and leadership style. Anyone who replaces Mugabe will be subject to these same factors. Its hard to imagine a Gukurhundi had there been a peaceful transition.
The only way to get a more peaceful Zimababwe without Mugabe would be for the British invade Rhodesia in the 60's, hang Ian Smith and the other white rebels and force a transition to majority rule.

A British invasion of Rhodesia in the 1960s is almost ASBs.

British soldiers fighting and killing white Rhodesians (many of whom would have been born in the UK or have been recent migrants from there) would not play well with the public back home. It's also an open question whether your ordinary British soldier would be prepared to fight people that many still considered their countrymen.

It would be a brave British government that invades Rhodesia and that hangs Ian Smith.
 
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