AHC: no Japanese internment

to be fair, trying to send off 1/3 of your population and gutting your workforce (The majority of your carpenters, transportation officials and a significant part of the agricultural labor force) based on racism isn't something the white businessmen are interested in.

Yeah, you don't have to like them, but business sense overcomes stupidity.

At least in that case it did.
 
hate to admit this but the only way there's no internment is if there's no Pearl Harbor. With a Phillipines-only attack there'll be resentment of Japanese-Americans once Bataan and other atrocities are revealed.

Nonsense.

The history of internment is poorly known.

Immediately after Pearl Harbor, the FBI and immigration service interned several thousand Japanese-Americans who were genuine security risks: known sympathizers with Japanese imperialism, associates of Japanese embassy and consular staff engaged in espionage, and many Kibei - American-born men who had gone to Japan for education, and undergone military training there.

This round-up was completed by the end of December.

Months later, though, various West Coast political figures began agitating for general internment of Japanese-Americans, with the sad results of history.

Without that malicious agitation , there would have been no general internment .
 
It's important to remember that the racisim against Japanese at the time dates to decades BEFORE Pearl Harbor.

A combination of racism (the result of economic jealousy, the Russo-Japanese war, side effects of the Yellow peril era, and Japan's invasion of China, which many thought of as a friend during the time) and paranoia (not helped by the Niihau incident and increased by the support of various political, military, and economic leaders).

Even after December 7, the string of Japanese victories also made people seek a scapegoat, and who better to blame than those from the enemy homeland?

Given that combination, at least one (or even more) of these factors must be changed to prevent internment:
  • Russo-Japanese war never happens or goes differently (stalemate/defeat for Japan)
  • Less Japanese economic presence
  • No Japanese invasion of China (which might have precluded US involvement in the war anyhow)
  • Japanese have less success in the conquests of 1941-42
  • no Niihau incident

You know, this thread makes me wonder, could the US have turned its various axis-heritage citizens against their home countries, like maybe sending the 442nd against Japan instead of/as well as Germany, or sending an all-Germany brigade into Europe?

Heck, I may actually write a timeline based on that :D
 
  • no Niihau incident

Niihau's easy.

Either all four guards actually do their job, or they put Nishikaichi in a different house for his internment.

Shitani is less likely to turn rogue, so as long as Nishikaichi and the Haradas don't get too much interactions, the Haradas might not be able to assist Nishikaichi's efforts to get his papers back and escape.

The last time we discussed the Niihau Incident, I basically argued it wouldn't have made a difference for the Mainland Japanese. It takes away an incident that helps them justify their reasoning for internment, but isn't really enough to stop it.
 
Q
Niihau's easy.

Either all four guards actually do their job, or they put Nishikaichi in a different house for his internment.

Shitani is less likely to turn rogue, so as long as Nishikaichi and the Haradas don't get too much interactions, the Haradas might not be able to assist Nishikaichi's efforts to get his papers back and escape.

The last time we discussed the Niihau Incident, I basically argued it wouldn't have made a difference for the Mainland Japanese. It takes away an incident that helps them justify their reasoning for internment, but isn't really enough to stop it.
Quite true. Some of the listed factors weigh much more than others. The primary factors, I'd say, are racism and paranoia. One of these two must either be reduced SEVERELY or be stopped entirely to stop internment.
 

cpip

Gone Fishin'
There is racism and then there is mass ethnic cleansing.

This didn’t happen anywhere else in the United States. It’s quite avoidable.

The Japanese-American population in the United States was concentrated in two places: the West Coast and Hawaii.

In Hawaii, the political pressure was against internment, because it would cripple the economy, and it was justified on the grounds that Hawaiians of Japanese descent were indispensable.

On the West Coast, the political pressure, following on with literally decades of racist behavior and attempts to expel and restrict Japanese immigrants and forbid them from even becoming landowners, was for internment. The presence of General DeWitt certainly contributes -- but he was far from the only voice speaking up for the shameful events which followed. You would need not only someone other than DeWitt, you would need nearly his exact opposite, a man who not only believed that internment was wrong, but was willing to argue the case forcefully in the face of politicians and the farm lobby who had been trying to accomplish this task since the turn of the century.
 
The Japanese-American population in the United States was concentrated in two places: the West Coast and Hawaii.

In Hawaii, the political pressure was against internment, because it would cripple the economy, and it was justified on the grounds that Hawaiians of Japanese descent were indispensable.

On the West Coast, the political pressure, following on with literally decades of racist behavior and attempts to expel and restrict Japanese immigrants and forbid them from even becoming landowners, was for internment. The presence of General DeWitt certainly contributes -- but he was far from the only voice speaking up for the shameful events which followed. You would need not only someone other than DeWitt, you would need nearly his exact opposite, a man who not only believed that internment was wrong, but was willing to argue the case forcefully in the face of politicians and the farm lobby who had been trying to accomplish this task since the turn of the century.
And have the influence to combat the advocates of internment. A prominent general or union leader would have far more sway than a Japanese community leader or some random farmer.
 
I feel that there might be one or two incidences with some Japanese-descended people supporting Japan, though Moreno likely first generation people with actual connections to the government. I bring this up partially as I find the claims that 'there were no acts of he Continental US by Japanese-Americans' to be suspect as they were not given any opportunity to. There is an oft quoted thing about Hoover saying that they should not be interned because he would have caught any spies. Though he covered up a case with Germans when some spies came forward and repeatedly tried to tell the FBI about spying, only to have their confessions covered up and having the two defectors jailed for decades. But yes, there may be a couple acts attributed to certain Japanese or Japanese-Americans in the continental US, but I don't see it as being too high of a number. They will still likely be accused of s great number of acts of sabotage though, and if something ever goes wrong in a factory, phone lines snap, or a train derails and they will risk being beaten or lynched by mob mentality.

Side note in the Nihaii incident. Do you guys think the people helping the pilot did so in a panic and then had to just keep running with it?
 
You know, this thread makes me wonder, could the US have turned its various axis-heritage citizens against their home countries, like maybe sending the 442nd against Japan instead of/as well as Germany, or sending an all-Germany brigade into Europe?
I think there would be great offense by German-Americans at basically having the American portoins removed from them by military decree.
 
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