Your challenge is, with a POD after the defeat of Nazi Germany, to have their be no Israel, and have an independent Palestine in it's place
AHC: No Israel
- Thread starter GodoftheTranses
- Start date
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
Would it be possible for Israel to not get support in the War of Independence (say no tanks from Czechoslovakia)?
This thread is going places! Bad places!
What's if Britain overreacts to the King David Hotel bombing and cancels all plans for a Jewish state. They instead create a federation called Palestine. (This may be implausible I'm not sure)
What's if Britain overreacts to the King David Hotel bombing and cancels all plans for a Jewish state. They instead create a federation called Palestine. (This may be implausible I'm not sure)
Had the war ended with the Western Allies possessing East Prussia, It would have made a very just punishment for Germany and a neat solution to the British problem of Palestine if it were taken from Germany and turned into a Jewish homeland. While it wouldn't quite be what Zionists had in mind, it would have been nicely positioned geographically to take in Europe's displaced Jews and has plenty of natural resources to be a thriving independent state.
Perhaps not quite what the OP had in mind with respect to the POD, though.
Perhaps not quite what the OP had in mind with respect to the POD, though.
I thought they did consider doing that in OTL, as a kind of fuck you to the Nazis.
Well, instead of an independent Palestine, the Hashemites will control most of the territory west of the Jordan River, while there's a possibility that Egypt will control Gaza and the Negev (if the Hashemites agreed).
I remembered when I read Golda Meir's Wiki bio that King Abdullah I proposed an autonomous Jewish region within his monarchy.
I remembered when I read Golda Meir's Wiki bio that King Abdullah I proposed an autonomous Jewish region within his monarchy.
LordKalvert
Banned
Easy as pie:
Harry Truman accepts George C Marshall's assessment that an independent Israel will prove a disaster for American interests
Truman, aware of his need to coddle to pro Zionists voters, decides to use various delaying tactics to get past the election.
If this fails, he then bribes the various Latin American states to all vote against Israel in the General Assembly while voting for it
If Israel declares independence, he recognizes it winning support from the Zionist movement
Tells the Latin Americans, that he will do them any favors they ask, just get some tanks to the Arabs and crush this damn thing
The Soviets start bailing out Israel. Then Truman declares this to be a Red plot and sends boatloads of captured Japanese and German equipment to crush these Reds.
Israel is destroyed, Palestine is saved and America is the hero of the Arabs
Harry Truman accepts George C Marshall's assessment that an independent Israel will prove a disaster for American interests
Truman, aware of his need to coddle to pro Zionists voters, decides to use various delaying tactics to get past the election.
If this fails, he then bribes the various Latin American states to all vote against Israel in the General Assembly while voting for it
If Israel declares independence, he recognizes it winning support from the Zionist movement
Tells the Latin Americans, that he will do them any favors they ask, just get some tanks to the Arabs and crush this damn thing
The Soviets start bailing out Israel. Then Truman declares this to be a Red plot and sends boatloads of captured Japanese and German equipment to crush these Reds.
Israel is destroyed, Palestine is saved and America is the hero of the Arabs
Riain
Banned
The biggest problem with no Israel is the Jews in Israel itself, there were about 200,000 in 1930 and 450,000 in 1940. What's more these Jews bought land and developed it and as a community were comparatively wealthy, well organised and extremely socially cohesive. These Jewish communities began to assert themselves prior to the war, against the Arabs and British, thus were a force to be reckoned with prior to the Holocaust.
Even if the British handed Palestine over to the Arabs and there was no UN resolution I'd suggest that the Jews would gain in political and economic power in Palestine and continue assert themselves politically and economically. Perhaps they could even win a civil war in Palestine if the British handed it to the Arabs.
Even if the British handed Palestine over to the Arabs and there was no UN resolution I'd suggest that the Jews would gain in political and economic power in Palestine and continue assert themselves politically and economically. Perhaps they could even win a civil war in Palestine if the British handed it to the Arabs.
One would think that a large Jewish political faction in an independent/united Palestine would be a considerable change from OTL's war and partition. Especially if economics encouraged them to Arabize.
The Sandman
Banned
Israel doesn't preempt its neighbors during the Six-Day War due to political concerns and is crushed by both the resulting Arab air superiority and sheer weight of numbers.
There was actually a book written about that POD, called If Israel Lost the War.
There was actually a book written about that POD, called If Israel Lost the War.
The timeline in my sig has a short-lived independent Palestine, and no Israel as such. There's some ideas there if you're looking for them. I think the key is preventing fairly radical people (like the Mufti) from becoming the de facto leaders of the Palestinians. People like the Nashashibis, who had close ties with the British would be more amenable, especially compared to Jewish terrorist groups like the Lehi.
Riain
Banned
I doubt the Jews would 'Arabize' since their economic model was giving them wealth and power and the capacity to guide the politics of the Levant. I'd guess that an Arab Palestine would be even less effective at stopping Jewish immigration than the British had been, so a decent amount of the OTL 1948-51 increase in Jewish people in Israel would occur anyway. Sooner or later the Jews are going to run Palestine; it stands to reason, they wanted it more.
A) The expulsions of Jews from the Arab world will probably not happen.
B) The fact that the Aliyots will be working their way into an existing government rather than setting one up on their own will change the dynamics as much as a larger Arab population that is not leaving will.
Spare Change
Banned
I don't understand why this is so hard. Israel loses the 1948 war. The UN steps in to stop the complete massacre of the Jews. Almost all are evacuated back to their post-war refugee camps. The land is divided among the victorious Arab powers. The Kingdom of Jordan changes its name to the Kingdom of Palestine as a way of declaring a claim over the entire British Mandate. The Kingdom at this point would hold roughly 85% of the original mandate including the city of Jerusalem. Its goal would be a port on the Med. Perhaps Syrian Hafia or perhps Egyptain Jaffa(former Tel Aviv).
The Hashemite King move his capital from Amman to Jerusalem and declare his dynasty the protector of the holy places. The King declares his primacy over the Dome of the Rock. This reaffirms the Dynasty's traditional claim to the Hedjaz (Mecca and Medina) as well.
The Hashemite King move his capital from Amman to Jerusalem and declare his dynasty the protector of the holy places. The King declares his primacy over the Dome of the Rock. This reaffirms the Dynasty's traditional claim to the Hedjaz (Mecca and Medina) as well.
Riain
Banned
Between 1945 and 1948, in the face of the British, Aliyah Bet smuggled some 250,000 Jews into Palestine. I'd suggest that in the event that for whatever reason the British hand power to Arab authorities Aliyah Bet can smuggle at least that many Jews into Palestine in 1948-51. This is far short of the 650,000 that went to Israel IOTL but is still a huge increase in population. If these Jews don't have an uprising and create a state they will gather more and more power to themselves and bend the Arab state to their will.
A) The question of if that many will be willing to go remains.
B) Presuming an honestly monolithic Jewish block in an Arab Palestine not bent on expelling them all, bending an existing state to their will (at least to a degree that will not blow up into civil war) is a far cry from building one from scratch.