AHC: No France

Anaxagoras

Banned
Unless you figure out a way for the Roman Empire (or, conceivably, just the Western Roman Empire) to avoid collapse, I think some form of political entity encompassing France is pretty sure to develop. The coast, the Rhine River, the Alps, and the Pyrenees form natural borders. It might take a long time, though.
 
The obvious way is to butterfly away Frankish hegemony in Belgica and their previous regional integration as laeti and federates.

Basically, the simpler would be to prevent or rig enough the western germanic leagues of various tribes that gave birth to Frankish peoples : a greater intervention or domination of Rome in the region could do it relativly easily.

Eventually, another league dominated by other tribes would appear on the other side of the border (either Rhine/Weser Germans entierly, or North Sea Germans, if not both) which would give birth to a more or less similar people which would be called differently, let's say "Liges" or "Ligians" for the sake of convenience.

With the fall of WRE, if it's still happens (which is not granted, and would give another easy way to butterfly away France), the fight between post-Imperial entities may give them or other peoples the domination of Northern Gaul which would take their name.

Any PoD after the IVth century, while still able to prevent a Frankish hegemony in Gaul, would probably still see a region of Gaul called Francia, would it be only in Belgica. Now, how long it would last depends of butterflies.

If you meant less France as issued from Francia, and more France as one entity in Western Europe roughly corresponding to IOTL borders, that's going to be more tricky.
Prevent the Roman conquest of Gaul, that structurated durably the region into 2/3 regions (roughly, South, North and East) may be a good start, as it would keep alive the pre-Roman structures that were more transversal.

Indeed, even after the fall of WRE, Romano-Barbarians hegemonies were disposed along late Roman structures, essentially the North/South disposition : eventually, it formed the establishment of religional domination over these lines quite hard to go against.
Meaning that even with Franks defeated and strike-trought of History, you'd find some other power (Romano-Barbarian or Gallo-Roman, while the distinction wasn't nearly as clear and blunt : both societies mixed a lot in Late Empire) to fill roughly the same regions.

Now, if you wanted a reduced France, it gets easier with a more recent PoD. Basically, "France" designated a more reduced country inside the Frankish then French kingdom : more or less the region corresponding to Neustria and Austrasia.
Preventing the Visigothic defeat and collapse, or having Carolingia being cross-divided instead or longitudinal divide, or preventing Capetian takeover of southern Gaul at the profit of someone else...
 
Assuming it was an option (which it wasn't IMO), you'd only end up with an entity still calling itself "Francia", whom vulgar romanisation would still give something really close of "Francie/France".
It will probably call itself the Roman Empire eventually,not that I recognize it ever will be one legtimately.
 
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Unless you figure out a way for the Roman Empire (or, conceivably, just the Western Roman Empire) to avoid collapse, I think some form of political entity encompassing France is pretty sure to develop. The coast, the Rhine River, the Alps, and the Pyrenees form natural borders. It might take a long time, though.

That's the real point.

People who don't know France's History well just can't figure out how the roman conquest was decisive in the making of what was to become France.

This original was so important that, during the french revolution, the french revolutionaries took the roman republic as a model. A large part of the french political leaders then saw their country as some kind of french roman republic. They even took roman n'aimes in the french constitution : consul, tribunes and tribunate (one of the 2 assemblies), Senate, ...etc.
 
It will probably call itself the Roman Empire eventually
Ah, I think I see the confusion. Carolingia was never named Roman Empire, neither Charlemagne called himself Roman Emperor, but "Emperor ruling over the Roman Empire", and the title most used was still "Kings of Franks and Lombards" even after 800.

See, Romans had a relativly bad reputation in IX/Xth western Europe, with peoples as Franks taking pride having toppled what was described as a tyranny (even putting aside this, it's largely a re-writing of their History, as they seems to have been quite loyal auxiliaries). It's one of the reasons Charlemagne didn't claimed the title of Roman Emperor or Emperor of the Romans, but the aformentioned bit strange title.

Even his son would take only the title of "Imperator", without much additions, in spite being more dipped with the "Roman" aspect than his father (partially due to its clerical education, and maybe due to his Aquitain kingship)

What interested Carolingians was the hegemony that the imperial title implied, seculary as well religiously over all Christians. Basically we're in the idea of a Christian Empire, far more than a Roman Empire (not that it was completly stroke-out, but more as a translatio imperii whom Ancient Israel and Rome were equally part of).

So, a surviving Carolingia (with all the reserves and doubts I've about its possibility being put aside) would probably not be named "Roman Empire" or "Empire of the Romans", safe really important cultural and political changes; and giving the importance given to "national" titles as "King of Franks and Lombards" (mostly because it was these titles that gave Charlemagne his political legitimacy, and not his imperial one), the identification of Carolingia as Francia would still be a given, as it was IOTL.

not that I recognize it ever will be one legtimately.
To be honest, that either I or you recognize its legitimacy have very little relevance : what matters more is why they didn't claimed Romanity for itself but for imperialiship, why the former wasn't acknowleged by Byzantium and why it was the imperialship that mattered.

I must admit I'm a bit annoyed by such attitudes (whatever adoration over an era and an entity; or its deep reject without much other reasons than affect), mostly because it leads sooner or later to re-writting History (which is always made for dubious reasons).
 
Unless you figure out a way for the Roman Empire (or, conceivably, just the Western Roman Empire) to avoid collapse, I think some form of political entity encompassing France is pretty sure to develop. The coast, the Rhine River, the Alps, and the Pyrenees form natural borders. It might take a long time, though.
You can easily have a different state control Aquitania, like, say, a more successful Visigoths/Ostrogoths.
 
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