AHC: New Zealand more populous than United Kingdom

I don't think the Polynesians would have had much luck without better crops or animals earlier on.

The other problem is that NZ is pretty far away from everyone. .

There is one theory of early Hemudu exploration circa 7500 BC. The Hemudu were proto-Austronesian group from coastal Yangtze river area.

So Assuming an initial Hemudu population arrives and establishes ongoing communication via Vanuatu/SEA and Polynesia (all of whom are Austronesian and thus familiar to the the descendents of the Hemudu)

The first Polynesian settlement also occured during a warm phase, so that the population was able to acclimatise gradually and the tropical crops had time be established before the frosts wiped them out. If NZ was overall warmer allowing more of the tropical crops (like Breadfruit) to grow it would be awesome and lead to much more rapid ppulation growth. The Hemudu might bring rice or millet too (although Breadfruit has higher yeilds than rice which is why Austronesians changed from Rice to Breadfruit)

You would also have to ensure that the NZs big volcanic eruptions did not wipe out earlier settlements and their gardens too.

Anyway the factors are just right you are going to get a bigger population but probably not in the UK level simply because of distances involved.
 
Zheng He instead going west, goes around Australia and NZ, presenting these empty lands to the emperor, and later encouraging colonization of these lands.
 
There is one theory of early Hemudu exploration circa 7500 BC. The Hemudu were proto-Austronesian group from coastal Yangtze river area.

So Assuming an initial Hemudu population arrives and establishes ongoing communication via Vanuatu/SEA and Polynesia (all of whom are Austronesian and thus familiar to the the descendents of the Hemudu)

The first Polynesian settlement also occured during a warm phase, so that the population was able to acclimatise gradually and the tropical crops had time be established before the frosts wiped them out. If NZ was overall warmer allowing more of the tropical crops (like Breadfruit) to grow it would be awesome and lead to much more rapid ppulation growth. The Hemudu might bring rice or millet too (although Breadfruit has higher yeilds than rice which is why Austronesians changed from Rice to Breadfruit)

You would also have to ensure that the NZs big volcanic eruptions did not wipe out earlier settlements and their gardens too.

Anyway the factors are just right you are going to get a bigger population but probably not in the UK level simply because of distances involved.

Quite. Breadfruit it is thought was introduced several times but unsuccessfully each time.

I think the problem is also that there is no real need to have ongoing contact with the home islands, wherever they are. NZ is going to be a bounty to any small group of Pacific island based migrants, with or without a good crop/food package on board and unless their shipping technology is so good that it can allow large cargoes to be moved cheaply, it is almost inevitable that their descendants, once the family bonds have weakened, will stop.


Below is a list of what we think are the main successfully introduced Polynesian crops.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/nga-tupu-mai-i-hawaiki-plants-from-polynesia/page-1

http://palaeoworks.anu.edu.au/pubs/Prebble_ch15.pdf
 
Zheng He instead going west, goes around Australia and NZ, presenting these empty lands to the emperor, and later encouraging colonization of these lands.

I suspect he may have a task convincing the emperor to send settlers that far. I'd also note that it is 10,000 km in a direct line between Beijing and Auckland.

It might help to look at why the British settled and work back to see if similar situation can be applied to China or any other useful seafaring civilisation.

I think in almost any powerful civilisation until recently, if one approached the sovereign and requested funds to create a colony several months away that had no short term prospect of making money or any useful strategic purpose but would also require long term support, that sovereign would be unlikely to agree.
 

SinghKing

Banned
I suspect he may have a task convincing the emperor to send settlers that far. I'd also note that it is 10,000 km in a direct line between Beijing and Auckland.

It might help to look at why the British settled and work back to see if similar situation can be applied to China or any other useful seafaring civilisation.

I think in almost any powerful civilisation until recently, if one approached the sovereign and requested funds to create a colony several months away that had no short term prospect of making money or any useful strategic purpose but would also require long term support, that sovereign would be unlikely to agree.

BTW, a reminder of my earlier proposal for a two-stage version of this scenario;

...you could go with a Majapahit merchant expedition; or either the Tidore or Ternate Sultanate (in the event of either of these two fierce rivals in North Maluku getting the upper hand, and subsequently driving the defeated Sultanate to set about sending expeditions to establish new colonies and vassals further eastwards, beyond West Papua)? And the Chinese (Song Dynasty) can find out about it and start getting involved themselves when Zheng He's fleet passes through Java on his first voyage, and Zheng He subsequently decides to explore this trade route, via the Lesser Sunda Islands and Melanesia to New Zealand (already established locally by this stage, but with knowledge of this route, and the lands along the way, largely unknown beyond the Indonesian Archipelago), on one of his later voyages; perhaps his 4th expedition, in 1413?

And if the first few settlements on the South Island already been established by this stage, and those jade deposits have already discovered? Then it shouldn't be too hard to convince the Chinese Emperor to send settlers out to mine it.
 
BTW, a reminder of my earlier proposal for a two-stage version of this scenario;



And if the first few settlements on the South Island already been established by this stage, and those jade deposits have already discovered? Then it shouldn't be too hard to convince the Chinese Emperor to send settlers out to mine it.

So in this version other states have set up a route into Australia and NZ, with small trading/supply colonies exist? Well I guess that could work.

The flaw might be the size of ZH's expedition. Unless these supply depots are rather large, I would doubt they would be able to support such numbers as I recall ZH having in his fleets. Although a smaller expedition could be sent I guess.

IOTL, for NZ anyway, after the initial explorations by Cook and the assumption of responsibility and ownership of the NZ islands, it did take another 50 or so years before any significant British presence developed. It could have been done sooner I guess, but the local British settlers/traders and other Europeans took some time to develop an interest in settling NZ as well as developing infrastructure.

My take on this is really that NZ is hard to settle by Big Powers as a fresh start unless they have the willingness to do a First Fleet style settlement (in other words, large and supported for sometime) or have a nearby base in Australia or somewhere equivalently close. The Polynesian approach is in some ways better as it likely was small initially, small enough that they had an expectation they could support themselves initially, then once established able to bring new colonists out in small numbers (as dictated by the size of their vessels).
 
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