AHC: New England on the Don?

GrandpaTanaka

Wow, this is interesting. I had never heard of it before. It seems like if it did happen, and they managed to avoid assimilation and remain a distinct culture, it would still be very different from the English in England. Maybe they maintain their language, but I imagine much of the culture would be Greek or Slavic influenced.
 

Enigmajones

Yeah, I was looking up the New England in Australia, and this gem fell in my lap. It seems as if, eventually the Russians would assume control of New England, most likely at least, but it boggles the mind that this could have been a reality.
 

GrandpaTanaka

First thing I thought of was the Greeks in eastern Turkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greeks). Evidently they diverged a fair bit from Greek culture and language and had the benefit of being much closer to their ancestral homeland and living in tough terrain. If "New England" is on the Don, they will have a lot of contact with other peoples and be virtually cut off from not just England, but Western Europe. It'd be real tough to maintain any "Englishness" but they might still be a distinct group from the neighbours.
 

RGB

I'd like to know just where exactly they think it was. 11th c. steppe was a rough place.

Crimea sounds possible; even in the 11th c. it was extremely mixed.

- Goths
- Alans
- Khazars (Alans and Khazars mostly Greek-speaking)
- Cumans and such
- Greeks
- Kasogians (as in Circassians/Abkhazians)
- Armenians
- Slavs/Russians

By the 13th c. we also get

- Karaims
- Italians
- Krymchaks

It's easy for any English settlers to get lost somewhere among all that.
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
Very interesting if true. Especially as there is also a River Don in England (I live on it, in Doncaster) and we have noted in past the fact that Russia also has a River Don and cities on it named after it...of course that's a coincidence of name, but it does make this even better.

If it did exist, could perhaps Edgar the AEtheling, the Anglo-Saxon heir who OTL died in exile in Hungary, take over it and become the king of the exilic English?
 
Julius Vogel

Julius Vogel

Thande said:
Very interesting if true. Especially as there is also a River Don in England (I live on it, in Doncaster) and we have noted in past the fact that Russia also has a River Don and cities on it named after it...of course that's a coincidence of name, but it does make this even better.

If it did exist, could perhaps Edgar the AEtheling, the Anglo-Saxon heir who OTL died in exile in Hungary, take over it and become the king of the exilic English?
Click to expand...

My old school ran alongside Don Street, as for some reason my home town ran a naming scheme based on British rivers.
 

Enigmajones

Thande said:
Very interesting if true. Especially as there is also a River Don in England (I live on it, in Doncaster) and we have noted in past the fact that Russia also has a River Don and cities on it named after it...of course that's a coincidence of name, but it does make this even better.

If it did exist, could perhaps Edgar the AEtheling, the Anglo-Saxon heir who OTL died in exile in Hungary, take over it and become the king of the exilic English?
Click to expand...

Well according to the accounts, they received Bishops and Clergy from Hungary, so its not impossible to think they he would be a prime candidate to rejoin his people.
 

RGB

Enigmajones said:
Well according to the accounts, they received Bishops and Clergy from Hungary, so its not impossible to think they he would be a prime candidate to rejoin his people.
Click to expand...

Sneaky bishops, if we don't know their names from any Hungarian sources. That or whatever settlements there were got thoroughly burned when the Mongols dropped by.
 

Enigmajones

RGB said:
Sneaky bishops, if we don't know their names from any Hungarian sources. That or whatever settlements there were got thoroughly burned when the Mongols dropped by.
Click to expand...

A very likely possibility.

Either way, this is either a fantastic story, or an account that was true, but did not tell tell the whole story, hence their destruction.
 

Zuvarq

This is even more far-fetched than New England in Ukraine, but maybe Anglo-Saxon refugees could head west for Vinland. I mean, it was known about. And if they were desperate enough to go to Crimea, they could think about Vinland.
 

Enigmajones

Zuvarq said:
This is even more far-fetched than New England in Ukraine, but maybe Anglo-Saxon refugees could head west for Vinland. I mean, it was known about. And if they were desperate enough to go to Crimea, they could think about Vinland.
Click to expand...

Well that would be all fine and good, but it directly opposes the point of this thread. Not to mention getting to Constantinople and then going to Vinland? Seems a little out of the way.
 

Zuvarq

Enigmajones said:
Well that would be all fine and good, but it directly opposes the point of this thread. Not to mention getting to Constantinople and then going to Vinland? Seems a little out of the way.
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Well they could go to Denmark instead. And the Danish king decides to help them, or just let them stay.
 

RGB

Zuvarq said:
Well they could go to Denmark instead. And the Danish king decides to help them, or just let them stay.
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They mostly did - before going to Russia and Constantinople. And I imagine after their stint as Varangians, most returned, to Denmark.
 

Desmond Hume

This is really interesting stuff! Oddly enough, just today I was reading about another, later "English" settlement on the Don--the city of Donetsk in Ukraine, which was apparently originally founded by British industrialist John Hughes and named Yuzovka in his honor. Funny how people from Great Britain keep turning up in that part of the world...
 

Arachnid

It's funny how many places outside the British Empire were founded by British Industrialists. South America is full of them.
 
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