AHC : Nazi Germany in a Central Powers Victory world

I personally don't think this is possible. The Nazis would most likely not exist in a CP Victory, as they were mostly formed in response to Germany's humiliation on the world stage. An authoritarian government in the mold of Bismarck is possible. Maybe Hindenburg or Ludendorff.
 
With an OTL World War 1 with a Central Powers victory, make the Nazi party with Hitler as head come to power in Germany.

Sorry but that just isn't plausible, Hitler's rise to power is a product of Germany's defeat in WWI. Without Weimar, reparations, the Great Depression and the willingness of the elite to try and co-opt Hitler for fear of communist revolution there is no Nazi regime and certainly no Hitler.
 
With an OTL World War 1 with a Central Powers victory, make the Nazi party with Hitler as head come to power in Germany.

Even IF Hitler and the Nazi party somehow got elected, the moment he seemed to be a threat to the Kaiser, and that moment WOULD come, he would be out on his ass in a best case scenario and Long Knifed in the worst. The Military has no loyalty to him personally, their loyalty is to another. How then is going to achieve any of his crazier goals? He can't strip power from the Kaiser openly, that's going to cause a confrontation. There's nothing to reclaim, so that route is out. I very much doubt the "Hey, let's murder all the jews!" platform is going to perform very well at the next election!
 
In the wake of a victory in WW1 Germany was looking at political liberalisation, in particular removing the Prussian 3 class franchise, with its indect and open (ie not secret) ballots. So not only will there be no bitterness of defeat the winners will be rewarded with greater political power, so no Nazi party.
 
Like there is already stated it is totally impossible that Hitler could rise to any political status in CP victory world. There wouldn't be humiliating peace terms to Germany, high reparations, and not territorial losses at least not African colonies and Metropolitan Germany. There wouldn't be backstab myth nor hatred rising hatred towards Jews. Communists wouldn't be big threat when Germany won the war and there is not such economical troubles without reparations and occupation of Rheinland. Hitler wouldn't have any bitterness so he wouldn't join to some nationalist ultra-right wing party and form new one. There wouldn't be any reason why Nazi Party would get power.

So Mission Impossible.
 
I don't think that this is literally possible, but in a late Central Powers victory scenario where the Soviet Union still forms (even if hampered by Brest-Litovsk), the fear of communist agitation is probably going to cause some sort of far-right political reaction in Germany, especially considering that the USSR may eventually start to openly or covertly start asserting irredentist claims over the new German satellite regimes in Eastern Europe.
 
I don't think that this is literally possible, but in a late Central Powers victory scenario where the Soviet Union still forms (even if hampered by Brest-Litovsk), the fear of communist agitation is probably going to cause some sort of far-right political reaction in Germany, especially considering that the USSR may eventually start to openly or covertly start asserting irredentist claims over the new German satellite regimes in Eastern Europe.

I think the Communist Russia could easily cause a right of centre political reaction in Germany, however this is likely to occur well enough within legitimate democratic channels. With a communist Russia, even a defeated one, as a neighbour the SD party may not increase its representation in the Prussian Parliament despite the liberalised voting rules or in the Reichstag. The other parties may be able to form right of centre coalitions in the Reichstag that could balance an SD Prussian PM/Chancellor.
 
Damn near impossible. A realistic CP victory means the German right choking on a victory nowhere near as sweet as they promised, the Heer putting out brushfire conflicts across eastern Europe, a France that's definitely coming back revanchist and mad as hell, a Britain that WW1 Germany realistically can't touch the actual shores of whose industry will be intact and which will be looking for any and every chance to screw over Germany.

Also the people will want political liberalization. Think the OTL British shift to Labour in '18, only in Germany. The elites, or enough of them anyway, will allow a shift to the moderate left (possibly in coalition with liberals?) in order to avoid Red revolt.

Without the seesawing political situation of Weimar (socialist revolt--nationalist para violence--let-it-all-hang-out liberalism--economic collapse--reactionary backlash conservatism--Prussian coup--left-wing electoral resurgence--Hindenburg letting Hitler in--Reichstag fire false-flag--purge--rigged elections to justify seizure of more power--HAIL FUHRER), lingering rage over losing WW1, political credibility of far-right groups resulting from said rage and the far-right's role in putting down the Spartakist rebellion, and the particular chain of events that led Hitler to get power in the first place (and it was a really odd chain of events, Hindenburg and von Papen were trying to get more conventional national conservatives in absolute control of Germany at the state as well as federal levels. They pulled off a straight-up coup in Prussia in '32, that let Hitler consolidate power really quickly two years later by defanging the state government in what was still by far the biggest and most powerful state.

With the Kaiser still having a degree of veto power, the population veering left, far greater political and social stability, and fear of radical elements among the elite inspired by the revanchists that will undoubtedly be taking over France during this time, the Nazis will, at best, be remembered as those nuts who tried to coup after they got drunk and were put down by the police.
 
Damn near impossible. A realistic CP victory means the German right choking on a victory nowhere near as sweet as they promised, the Heer putting out brushfire conflicts across eastern Europe, a France that's definitely coming back revanchist and mad as hell, a Britain that WW1 Germany realistically can't touch the actual shores of whose industry will be intact and which will be looking for any and every chance to screw over Germany.

Also the people will want political liberalization. Think the OTL British shift to Labour in '18, only in Germany. The elites, or enough of them anyway, will allow a shift to the moderate left (possibly in coalition with liberals?) in order to avoid Red revolt.

Without the seesawing political situation of Weimar (socialist revolt--nationalist para violence--let-it-all-hang-out liberalism--economic collapse--reactionary backlash conservatism--Prussian coup--left-wing electoral resurgence--Hindenburg letting Hitler in--Reichstag fire false-flag--purge--rigged elections to justify seizure of more power--HAIL FUHRER), lingering rage over losing WW1, political credibility of far-right groups resulting from said rage and the far-right's role in putting down the Spartakist rebellion, and the particular chain of events that led Hitler to get power in the first place (and it was a really odd chain of events, Hindenburg and von Papen were trying to get more conventional national conservatives in absolute control of Germany at the state as well as federal levels. They pulled off a straight-up coup in Prussia in '32, that let Hitler consolidate power really quickly two years later by defanging the state government in what was still by far the biggest and most powerful state.

With the Kaiser still having a degree of veto power, the population veering left, far greater political and social stability, and fear of radical elements among the elite inspired by the revanchists that will undoubtedly be taking over France during this time, the Nazis will, at best, be remembered as those nuts who tried to coup after they got drunk and were put down by the police.

My own POD would look like this :

Germany miraculously somehow manages to halt the American Meuse Argonne Offensive. Germany then hires some sort of a genius general that manages to launch another Spring offensive style. Germany manages to exploit the resources of Eastern European lands they received after the defeat of Russia faster, receiving a steady flow of food. Somehow, a genius propaganda minister is hired, quelling the home front in Central Powers nations down, and with his genius tactics calms the general public down. Germany in a miracle manages to reach Paris with the Fall Offensive. Germany then somehow manages to develop a state of the art U boat model, the World War 1 equivalent of the Elektroboot. Allied shipping comes to a disaster, and the Allied powers are cut off of supplies. The Allied armies then begin to starve just like the Central Powers armies but with the Central Powers having the upper hand in this scenario due to the genius tactics of the said general and propaganda minister. Due to the new U boat model, AEF armies will have a hell of a time being shipped to Europe. Bulgaria does an OTL Romania and rejoins the war at the last minute. Allies accept German peace offer...

With that being said...

It's the 1920s and Germany just won World War 1. Even though the Fall offensive was a success, it costed Germany an arm and a leg. The German population only didn't revolt due to Germany winning and the tactics of the genius propaganda minister. The British blockade utterly destroyed the German economy, and Germany is left with it's best men dead, a starving population and sick people everywhere, and an economy in shatters. Germany then becomes an OTL France but MUCH worse due to the said reasons. Even the sweet prizes of the war such as reparations from the Allies and the sweet new colonies from the British, French, and Americans doesn't help. The Austro Hungarian empire shatters in the 20s due to the effects of the war, similar to OTL Spain in the post Napoleonic Wars. Germany then picks up the remains of the Austro Hungarian empire, including Austria itself, Hitler's home country. The Ottoman Empire explodes into revolution due to the effects of the war and anger across the Ottoman population of the actions of the Sultan. OTL Turkey then becomes an OTL Netherlands after World War 2, with it's colonies (or non Turkish territories) rebelling, similar to the OTL Indonesian revolution post World War 2. Germany sends an army to help, but withdraws due to the fear of communist sympathizers. Due to the existence of the Soviet Union and the rise of the population of far left parties (similar to OTL France but much worse), this leads to the rise of far right parties. The Nazi party then forms and Hitler joins as OTL. The Frankfurt Stock market crash of 1927 happens (similar to the OTL 1929 New York stock market crash) and Germany plunges into the Great Depression. Germany in the 30s is a much worse OTl France, with far left and far right parties rising in popularity. The rest of the story is for you people who are better in history than me to decide...
 
My own POD would look like this :

Germany miraculously somehow manages to halt the American Meuse Argonne Offensive. Germany then hires some sort of a genius general that manages to launch another Spring offensive style. Germany manages to exploit the resources of Eastern European lands they received after the defeat of Russia faster, receiving a steady flow of food. Somehow, a genius propaganda minister is hired, quelling the home front in Central Powers nations down, and with his genius tactics calms the general public down. Germany in a miracle manages to reach Paris with the Fall Offensive. Germany then somehow manages to develop a state of the art U boat model, the World War 1 equivalent of the Elektroboot. Allied shipping comes to a disaster, and the Allied powers are cut off of supplies. The Allied armies then begin to starve just like the Central Powers armies but with the Central Powers having the upper hand in this scenario due to the genius tactics of the said general and propaganda minister. Due to the new U boat model, AEF armies will have a hell of a time being shipped to Europe. Bulgaria does an OTL Romania and rejoins the war at the last minute. Allies accept German peace offer...

With that being said...

It's the 1920s and Germany just won World War 1. Even though the Fall offensive was a success, it costed Germany an arm and a leg. The German population only didn't revolt due to Germany winning and the tactics of the genius propaganda minister. The British blockade utterly destroyed the German economy, and Germany is left with it's best men dead, a starving population and sick people everywhere, and an economy in shatters. Germany then becomes an OTL France but MUCH worse due to the said reasons. Even the sweet prizes of the war such as reparations from the Allies and the sweet new colonies from the British, French, and Americans doesn't help. The Austro Hungarian empire shatters in the 20s due to the effects of the war, similar to OTL Spain in the post Napoleonic Wars. Germany then picks up the remains of the Austro Hungarian empire, including Austria itself, Hitler's home country. The Ottoman Empire explodes into revolution due to the effects of the war and anger across the Ottoman population of the actions of the Sultan. OTL Turkey then becomes an OTL Netherlands after World War 2, with it's colonies (or non Turkish territories) rebelling, similar to the OTL Indonesian revolution post World War 2. Germany sends an army to help, but withdraws due to the fear of communist sympathizers. Due to the existence of the Soviet Union and the rise of the population of far left parties (similar to OTL France but much worse), this leads to the rise of far right parties. The Nazi party then forms and Hitler joins as OTL. The Frankfurt Stock market crash of 1927 happens (similar to the OTL 1929 New York stock market crash) and Germany plunges into the Great Depression. Germany in the 30s is a much worse OTl France, with far left and far right parties rising in popularity. The rest of the story is for you people who are better in history than me to decide...
How does Germany halt the American offensive? Where do they get the men and materiel for another Kaiserschlacht, and how do they find and hire a genius+mentally stable general capable of doing Kaiserschlacht 2.0 but in a far worse strategic situation with the Entente getting a second wind and Germany literally on the brink of collapse? Where do they get a propaganda minister who can make a situation exponentially worse than Britain's and getting worse by the day somehow turn into a unified nation A-OK with the increasingly obviously pointless war?

Germany post-Kaiserschlacht has no allies capable of defending themselves let alone helping out in Germany, cratering war support on the homefront, enemies with ever-increasing morale AND the trump card of American backing, and also Lundendorff wasted all the best troops on Kaiserschlacht for ill-defined strategic goals that he didn't even succeed in getting.

It's basically impossible for Germany to win post-Kaiserschlacht without a literal ASB crashing an asteroid into DC and London.
 
Maybe Hitler can eek out a minor political career as a far right demagogue... But without the humiliation of defeat and crippling effects of versallies, he won't have the same amount of support.
 
I agree that a far right Hitler leadership is almost impossible. However, OP simply asked for Hitler coming to power in Germany at the head of the Nazi Party without specifying its TTL policies. I therefore propose an earlier Great Depression brought on by the inability of the Entente to pay off debts to American bankers, which spreads to Germany though perhaps not as badly as OTL. Dissension in the SDP over how to respond to the issue (they are in power when the Depression hits) results in the SDP splitting, with the 'right' side of the Party forming into a new National Socialist center-left party with Hitler, who for whatever reason ends up involved in more mainstream politics (a knock on the head during the war can alter his personality), at its head. This NSP, referred to as the "Nazi" party unconnected to the OTL NSDAP except in leadership, does well in the next election (the SDP does poorly at handling the first years of the crisis and sees much of its support lost to the NSP and KPD in the next election) and forms a coalition government with the center-right, with Hitler serving as Chancellor.
 
I don't think that this is literally possible, but in a late Central Powers victory scenario where the Soviet Union still forms (even if hampered by Brest-Litovsk), the fear of communist agitation is probably going to cause some sort of far-right political reaction in Germany, especially considering that the USSR may eventually start to openly or covertly start asserting irredentist claims over the new German satellite regimes in Eastern Europe.

The Svoiet Union wouldn't form if the Central Powers won, the Germans planned to crush the Bolsheviks and install a conservative puppet state in Russia, read https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...intervention-in-the-russian-civil-war.363450/.
 
The Svoiet Union wouldn't form if the Central Powers won, the Germans planned to crush the Bolsheviks and install a conservative puppet state in Russia, read https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...intervention-in-the-russian-civil-war.363450/.
That’s if Germany won World War 1 earlier in order for Germany to do such an act. But if that happened, the circumstances that develop a totalitarian Germany in a Central Victory world wouldn’t even exist. In this TL, in order to create a stipulation for post war Imperial Germany to be so bad that leads to a totalitarian government, you need Germany to be completely burned out, completely starving, a shattered economy, and a political situation so unstable. Which is why I created my POD above. Germany in this POD manages to win World War 1, but got so burned out it is unable to intervene in other nation’s affairs while dealing with it’s own domestic affairs.
 

nbcman

Donor
That’s if Germany won World War 1 earlier in order for Germany to do such an act. But if that happened, the circumstances that develop a totalitarian Germany in a Central Victory world wouldn’t even exist. In this TL, in order to create a stipulation for post war Imperial Germany to be so bad that leads to a totalitarian government, you need Germany to be completely burned out, completely starving, a shattered economy, and a political situation so unstable. Which is why I created my POD above. Germany in this POD manages to win World War 1, but got so burned out it is unable to intervene in other nation’s affairs while dealing with it’s own domestic affairs.
By the time the Meuse Argonne Offensive started, the Macedonian front was shattered, the Ottomans were being rolled up in the Levant, and the Italians were about to launch their attacks at Vittorio Veneto. The Germans allies were going to all drop out within a month so even if the Germans miraculously stop the Western Front offensive, they can't stop all forces that are invading Germany from the West and the South.

Wiki has a good reference image on the relative rifle strengths of the opposing forces, notice that the German's rifle strength fell under the Allied strength in mid-June 1918. By late-September when the Meuse Argonne Offensive kicked off, they were outnumbered by over 450,000:
Riflemen-1918-Western-Front.jpg
 
If they even get as far as to attempt a laughable coup (a la the Beer Hall Putsch) in a CP victory world, they won't be facing jail afterwards...the lot of them would be executed.
 
If they even get as far as to attempt a laughable coup (a la the Beer Hall Putsch) in a CP victory world, they won't be facing jail afterwards...the lot of them would be executed.

Probably police would arrest mutineers before they can step out of their homes.
 
Top