AHC : Native Americans Immune to Europeans
- Thread starter Pyni
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- pre colombian
Kick
I just wanted to quickly say I love the implication in the thread title that Europeans are the disease
Absolutely disgusting, consider yourself reported.
To answer OP - Natives couldn't just build up immunity, they were genetically more suspectible to disease due to a lack of exposure to it throughout more than ten thousand years of history. Any encounter with the outside world is inevitably going to produce millions of corpses. That being said, not even a P.O.D of 1519 is going to ensure that the region must fall to Europeans.
The diseases would have to arrive in America in ancient times. A ship or cargo packet is blown off course from the Iberian peninsula and makes it on a one-way trip to North America. The diseases kill, but also impart immunity to generations of survivors. Another option might be for the Vikings to move farther south and infect populations in more temperate regions.
Lusitania
Donor
Sorry but the arrival of a disease hundreds of years or thousands before Columbus will not provide them with any protection.they mutate and the disease in Europe in 15-16th century would be different strainns of the disease. Just like cold virus affects people today every year due to mutation. Nothing short of continuous contact would provide the natives with exposure.
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Well, the Vikings could succeed in colonizing North America, eventually having more and more contact with the natives and introducing diseases and more domesticated animals. So when Columbus arrives in 1492 the diseases will not be catastrophic
Really poor excuse for a joke.
Take a week and work on your routine.
See ya' in 7.
Lusitania
Donor
Yes but if Viking do arrive in 12 century and these colonizers continue with regular contact back to Europe then Columbus will not arrive in 1492 because Europe will hear about America’s existence. If they arrive and become cutoff then they too will become victims of the diseases starting in 1492. Remember science shows us that the diseases in 15-16th century were different than those in the 12 century.
One more thing the Vikings have provided the natives no immunity plus they have introduced the disease much earlier and affected the natives in similar fashion. So the natives populations will be lower and weaker when Europeans arrive again in 1492.
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I do not think the Europeans would cross the ocean to go to North America, there was no motivation, there are no great riches in North America like in Central America or in India
Lusitania
Donor
I am sorry but I do not understand your reasoning. We have to think as Europeans did before, there was land and Vikings would continue to settle or trade. They did not know about riches neither did the Spanish they were looking for way around the land to get to China where the riches were, Do not confuse your knowledge for the limited knowledge that people had at that time.
Anyway sorry but some Europeans would come to the Americas and they would bring disease and those diseases would spread through native trading routes.
Max Sinister
Banned
Gurps AE suggested that a Carthaginian ship is blown off course in 5XX BC. This leads to permanent contact... OK for you?
Lusitania
Donor
But what will that do? Nothing and there is no historical ability to say it did not happen but there was noticeable impact. Because 2000 is nothing in terms of diseases that can mutate and strike population every generation
Not so easy. The maritime technology of 500 BC could not have led to permanent back-and-forth contact between continents. A ship blown off course is a one-way journey in those years.
Max Sinister
Banned
I'm no expert... if the Vikings could make it to Greenland back and forth (until the Little Ice Age struck), what did they have what the Carthaginians didn't have? - If an antique people could make it, I guess it'd be them.
I had this discussion on an earlier thread. I believe it was member DValdron (an attorney) who argued it down. The issue relates to the sea currents and prevailing winds. The Vikings could ride just the right combination of currents and winds. Columbus also did, but with the ships of late 15th century technology. Hence, a ship at the mercy of the elements too many centuries back would be stuck in a one-way trip.
Lusitania
Donor
You have to look at the distances involved. The distance the Vikings travelled were short distances using the islands north of Scotland and Iceland as stopovers then from Iceland to Greenland before sailing down to Vinland (Newfoundland). Any ship sailing from Mediterranean would have only Madeira or canaries islands as stop over and the distance from those to America’s is huge and 2-5 times the distance covered by Vikings without any sight of land.
Yes disease changes over time. But a new seasonal flu wont kill you because its not THAT different from the last time you got it.
If you get measles and mumps for the first time, that probably wont kill you either. But it killed a third of the infected American Indians. Earlier exposure helps the population a great deal.
Lusitania
Donor
Ok but 200 years the measles will and did mutate and just like Spanish flu hit right after WWI if it hit today it would still kill tens of millions so we did not become immune to it and people 100 or 200 years would not be imune to the mutated disease.