I didn't said it was neglectible : I said it was FAR from being neglectible. We pretty much agree there.
Ahh, it seems my sub par English reading ability has ensnared me again.
I didn't said it was neglectible : I said it was FAR from being neglectible. We pretty much agree there.
That is not always correct. It depends on the context. Christian leaders in the field were not ignorant of these things, just as Muslim were not ignorant of heretical Christian groups in their lands.
...Palermo again when Roger Guiscard went on to conquer Sicily...
"Oh, conquering it would be TOO easy. We're sportsmen. Let's try to conquer Tartary or something".Not much of a challenge part of the "AHC." Just have the Normans (including mercs working for the local counts!) go somewhere else and the island is safe for three more generations.
Which they weren't, and not going to unless we indulge ourselves with some "these people are holding together anyway" sorta thinking.And if you can't sort your problems out while you are allied to the Moors
I don't even...Is this a drunken post?then what is about to come is unintentional social Darwinism.
"Oh, conquering it would be TOO easy. We're sportsmen. Let's try to conquer Tartary or something".
Sicily in the XIth century is easy prey : a particularily wealthy region, particularily divided and certain to not recieve nearly enough reinforcements. Why would anyone just bypass that, would it be only trough sheer opportunism?
Which they weren't,
I don't even...Is this a drunken post?
It's also physically possible to jump instead of walking. I don't see much people doing it, tough.It's physically possible to ignore a nice juicy target like that.
They were under the dependence (politically and militarily) of Fatimids, then Zirids. Basically whoever controlled North Africa at this point, and would serve as a naval and recruitement supplier. To say it wasn't exactly that certain of a relationship would be an understatement.My mistake, I thought they were allied with the Moors.
It's less they were allied with Moors (assuming, maybe wrongly) that by Moors your version of Wikipedia meant "Berbers", that an important part of their military strength came from recrruitement and mercenariship from North Africa. It was a constant of Western Islamic states at this point, and participated to the general inner strife and political destabilization (it's really obvious in the wake of Umayyad collapse).It was a bit of dark humor. When I thought they were allied with the Moors (Wikipedia fooled me) then if the Normans go somewhere else, then they have 3 generations to work it out before the next attack.
I doubt they would do that : not only the historical expeditions such as in Balearic Island failed to maintain italian/provencal/barcelonese control of the archipelago even with their resources and demographies, but maritime comuni would have relatively low interests taking on Sicily (mostly because it would break down trade possibilities for a while, and because even with their capacities it would have meant sharing the conquest with someone).This is enough time for the local Italian city states to grow in population and deal with some of their internal problems and organized enough to launch an amphibious invasion without the Normans.
I agree : these people are so dumb to not figure out their own problem and to resolve it ASAP.Three generations is a awhile, so if the ruling dynasty can't solve its problems with no external threat, it means they were really dumb.
First, the situation you depicted is about clans sharing a same political background. It's a bit like why, say, the County of Toulouse didn't tried to take and plunder the County of Fois. Contrary to the relations between mercenaries forging for themselves a kingdom over foreign foes, the political and cultural frames within a same political ensemble generally prevents total chaos : if it doesn't, it does means you don't have a political coherent ensemble.Of course, there isn't a particularly good reason for the Normans to ignore a nice target like that, but what makes them different than the Japanese in terms of opportunism?