AHC: Muslim-majority Indochina

TheWitheredStriker

TheWitheredStriker

The challenge is to have Islam spread across Mainland Southeast Asia beyond Malaya and the Cham and become the majority religion (at least 60 - 70%). Bonus points if all five countries (Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia) are Muslim-majority. Vietnam alone also accords bonus points, since I'm under the impression that it's the hardest Indochinese country to convert.

I've seen many ideas thrown around in this old thread, like:
  • The retention of the Mekong by Cambodia, which is Cambodia's best riverport, and where most of the trade with China would pass by. This would make the Malay traders much more likely to proselytize and trade in Indochina.
  • Shorter Cambodian Dark Ages, leading to a Khmer king eventually marrying a Malaysian, Bruneian or Cham princess
  • Switching Siam and Cambodia around following either previous PoD or both of them; rather than Siam exploiting an anarchic Cambodia, Cambodia exploits an anarchic Siam
  • Instability in Siam between 1300 and 1500
  • The earlier death of Zheng He, allowing Islam to make more inroads in Thailand through Malaya
  • A surviving Bengal Sultanate, which converts more ethnic groups of Myanmar and Northeast India and makes conquests in the region
However, some of these ideas aren't elaborated upon in the "how" department. Some are even prefixed with "somehow", and are also shrouded in a bit of shade, as not all of them facilitate Islamization directly. Hence why I made this thread to hopefully bring more attention to this idea and bring out concrete ideas on how this could be done.
 
Last edited:

holycookie

the mongols conquered vietnam and the mongolian leader who organizes this new province is an islamic mongolian. After the fall of the Mongol Empire, Vietnam would have a large number of Muslims, probably somewhere between 30 and 40%. it would probably be a situation like in india with an islamic elite and middle class and the rest of another religion.
the future of islamic vietnam will be difficult especially with the arrival of portuguese and other europeans
 

Portucale

Banned
TheWitheredStriker said:
The challenge is to have Islam spread across Mainland Southeast Asia beyond Malaya and the Cham and become the majority religion (at least 60 - 70%). Bonus points if all five countries (Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia) are Muslim-majority. Vietnam alone also accords bonus points, since I'm under the impression that it's the hardest Indochinese country to convert.

I've seen many ideas thrown around in this old thread, like:
  • The retention of the Mekong by Cambodia, which is Cambodia's best riverport, and where most of the trade with China would pass by. This would make the Malay traders much more likely to proselytize and trade in Indochina.
  • Shorter Cambodian Dark Ages, leading to a Khmer king eventually marrying a Malaysian, Bruneian or Cham princess
  • Switching Siam and Cambodia around following either previous PoD or both of them; rather than Siam exploiting an anarchic Cambodia, Cambodia exploits an anarchic Siam
  • Instability in Siam between 1300 and 1500
  • The earlier death of Zheng He, allowing Islam to make more inroads in Thailand through Malaya
  • A surviving Bengal Sultanate, which converts more ethnic groups of Myanmar and Northeast India and makes conquests in the region
However, some of these ideas aren't elaborated upon in the "how" department. Some are even prefixed with "somehow", and are also shrouded in a bit of shade, as not all of them facilitate Islamization directly. Hence why I made this thread to hopefully bring more attention to this idea and bring out concrete ideas on how this could be done.
Click to expand...
Some of the information in that thread is outdated.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5o8avu/_/dchh4ru
has since argued that the main reason why Mainland Southeast Asia remained Buddhist while Maritime Southeast Asia became Muslim was that most Burmese, Thais and Khmers actually were Buddhists while most Malays and Western Indonesians were animists with Hindu and Buddhist influence. Only the elites of pre-Islamic Malaysia and Western Indonesia were Hindu or Buddhist.
 

Portucale

Banned
TheWitheredStriker said:
The challenge is to have Islam spread across Mainland Southeast Asia beyond Malaya and the Cham and become the majority religion (at least 60 - 70%). Bonus points if all five countries (Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia) are Muslim-majority. Vietnam alone also accords bonus points, since I'm under the impression that it's the hardest Indochinese country to convert.

I've seen many ideas thrown around in this old thread, like:
  • The retention of the Mekong by Cambodia, which is Cambodia's best riverport, and where most of the trade with China would pass by. This would make the Malay traders much more likely to proselytize and trade in Indochina.
  • Shorter Cambodian Dark Ages, leading to a Khmer king eventually marrying a Malaysian, Bruneian or Cham princess
  • Switching Siam and Cambodia around following either previous PoD or both of them; rather than Siam exploiting an anarchic Cambodia, Cambodia exploits an anarchic Siam
  • Instability in Siam between 1300 and 1500
  • The earlier death of Zheng He, allowing Islam to make more inroads in Thailand through Malaya
  • A surviving Bengal Sultanate, which converts more ethnic groups of Myanmar and Northeast India and makes conquests in the region
However, some of these ideas aren't elaborated upon in the "how" department. Some are even prefixed with "somehow", and are also shrouded in a bit of shade, as not all of them facilitate Islamization directly. Hence why I made this thread to hopefully bring more attention to this idea and bring out concrete ideas on how this could be done.
Click to expand...
Dai Viet may be easier than you think. In a long war in the late 14th century, under King Po Binasour, Champa came close to conquering Dai Viet, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champa–Đại_Việt_War_(1367–1390).
Had Champa conquered Dai Viet and still converted to Islam, Dai Viet would probably be Islamic, too.
 
Gigachad3k

Gigachad3k

Have Champa Conquer Dai Viet and all of SE Asia, there you will have Muslim Majority Indochina or Butterfly Dharmic Religions like Hinduism and Buddhism which would result entire Asia being Muslim.
 
TheWitheredStriker

TheWitheredStriker

A Champa conquest of Vietnam, and ensuing spread of Islam through Indochina by them, seems like a really neat idea. Purely out of curiosity alone, are there other good PoD's to beat the challenge as well?
 

Portucale

Banned
TheWitheredStriker said:
The challenge is to have Islam spread across Mainland Southeast Asia beyond Malaya and the Cham and become the majority religion (at least 60 - 70%). Bonus points if all five countries (Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia) are Muslim-majority. Vietnam alone also accords bonus points, since I'm under the impression that it's the hardest Indochinese country to convert.

I've seen many ideas thrown around in this old thread, like:
  • The retention of the Mekong by Cambodia, which is Cambodia's best riverport, and where most of the trade with China would pass by. This would make the Malay traders much more likely to proselytize and trade in Indochina.
  • Shorter Cambodian Dark Ages, leading to a Khmer king eventually marrying a Malaysian, Bruneian or Cham princess
  • Switching Siam and Cambodia around following either previous PoD or both of them; rather than Siam exploiting an anarchic Cambodia, Cambodia exploits an anarchic Siam
  • Instability in Siam between 1300 and 1500
  • The earlier death of Zheng He, allowing Islam to make more inroads in Thailand through Malaya
  • A surviving Bengal Sultanate, which converts more ethnic groups of Myanmar and Northeast India and makes conquests in the region
However, some of these ideas aren't elaborated upon in the "how" department. Some are even prefixed with "somehow", and are also shrouded in a bit of shade, as not all of them facilitate Islamization directly. Hence why I made this thread to hopefully bring more attention to this idea and bring out concrete ideas on how this could be done.
Click to expand...
Arakan, which was the independent Kingdom of Mrauk U,
may be the easiest area of mainland Southeast Asia to convert to Islam, according to
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5o8avu/_/dchhon2
. It did get a significant Muslim population, the Rohingyas.
 
TheWitheredStriker

TheWitheredStriker

Interesting (sorry for late reply)!

Any other ideas? All the ones currently here are insanely cool and I love them! But sheer curiosity alone makes me wonder if there are even more opportunities out there -- I love learning new things.
 

Icepicked Lurker

A Bengal sultanate that avoided control from further up the Ganges could succeed in this, at least when it comes to peeling off regions of coastal Myanmar. People often point out the successful conversion of modern day Bangladesh (arising largely from the change in the river course and clearing of the forests for agriculture being contemporaneous with Mughal rule and sufi ministry to animists) but this process was paired with conflicts in Assam and Arakan which were stymied by internal conflict and campaigns in the Deccan. At least in the case of north east India we know conversion could be successful, because Anglican’s managed it after conquest, but in Arakan suppression of piracy combined with direct patronage from a likely very wealthy Bengal could have broken Buddhist institutional power
 

Icepicked Lurker

Bengal also likely would’ve been a much more assertive naval power in its environs, and was historically heavily linked to Chinese overland and naval trade
 
TheWitheredStriker

TheWitheredStriker

So what I'm inferring here is that a surviving Bengal Sultanate is a good setup for a Muslim Indochina. I'm not too well-versed on its history; what would need to be done to prevent its downfall?
 
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