Yeah, much of the New World is going to be Islamic ITTL. Heck, I could even have Al-Andalus and Morocco compete for colonies.
AHC: Muslim Iberia, Christian Anatolia
- Thread starter Mort the Reaper
- Start date
If they end up with the Pyrenees as a solid buffer, they can later consolidate.
The Basques can hold the line in the north, allowing consolidation up into Asturias. Historically, the area that would become Navarre was under Muslim control at their high-water mark, organized as a march against the Franks. It had a Christian majority but a substantial Muslim minority, until ultimately cutting ties with Cordoba in the 10th Century. A stronger Muslim hold west of the mountains could probably keep Pamplona comfortably under under Muslim suzerainty.
Right now I have the border at the Douro and Ebro rivers, with Al-Andalus controlling everything to the south and three Christian states of Asturias, Navarra and Catalonia in the north of Iberia. The French would probably want a buffer between them and the Moors.
On another note, I should probably go and start that thread.
Gabingston's Maps and Graphics TL (Title Pending)
Hello. For the past year and a half, I've been running a moderately successful timeline on if David Kirke successfully captured the French colony of Quebec in 1628. However, I've had plans recently for a separate TL in the Maps and Graphics thread. After getting into discussions with some folks...
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Depends on how the timeline goes if the we see the great advances of the 15th and especially the 16th century in naval warfare and warfare in general to Europe
And have the Muslim world become what it was in the otl the Muslims would get crushed by other European powers with better ships
Unless Muslim Iberia becomes like the ottomans in regards of a powerful state
Speaking of technology there is the question whether Spain would be more or less advanced than the otl
And there would be discussions until when Iberia could still have been consideted culturally part of Europe and when did it irrevocably become a part of the Maghreb.
The accepted concensus would likely be the moment when Andalusi Arabic replaced Romance Mozarabic as the lingua franca, which I expect would happen somewhat later than IOTL in the 14th to 15th century in Granada, say 16th to 17th century, with Mozarabic being relegated to the status of a rural minority language spoken exclusively by illiterate rustics in the valleys of the rugged mountains in the far north of the peninsula by the 19th to 20th century.
In Asia Minor a lot of Koine Greek dialects that went extinct IOTL would continue to exist and would likely have influenced modern Greek in quite a substantial way.
And while viticulture would in the most literal sense have withered on the vine on the Iberian peninsula, it would have continued to thrive in Asia Minor.
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Not totally extinct, just significantly dimished, since domestic demand would come almost exclusively from the shrinking Christian and Jewish communities (IOTL down to 20% by 1100 and 10% by 1300, ITTL possibly down to 5% another 200 years later) while export only picked up IOTL when the Little Ice Age made viticulture in northwestern Europe in the 16th to 18th century next to impossible.
Turkey and Iran are still in the top ten for winemaking countries in terms of area given over to viticulture, with Egypt and Afghanistan not far behind. So I doubt larger Muslim populations would have that much of an effect.
The Muslim country with the highest viticultural output is Algeria, producing a puny 52'000 tons annually, down from 1'800'000 tons directly before the Pieds-Noirs left after its independence and a peak output of 2'100'000 tons earlier during French rule. And this wasn't the first time that viticulture almost disappeared in that region. After having thrived for more than a millenium after being introduced by Carthage it almost totally disappeared after the Arab conquest in the 7th and 8th century.
Turkey produces a mere 45'000 tons of wine annually, less than 1% of Spain's annual output, Egypt with 5'000 tons less than Lithuania so, as I said, not completely gone, but significantly dimished. And even if there had been any vineyards in Afghanistan before the Taliban came to power, I severely doubt they'd have allowed them to continue to exist let alone produce any wine .
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Not sure where you're getting those numbers from. According to the Food and Agriculture Organisation, in 2018 Algeria produced 502,978 tons, Turkey 3,933,000 tons, and Iran 2,032,031 tons. That's compared to Spain's 6,673,481, and Italy's 8,513,643. The Christian countries clearly have more, but not by much.
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Those figures are grape production, not wine production. The overwhelming majority of grapes grown in Turkey are either of the table grape or dried grape (raisins), not wine grape variaties, and the same holds true for the other Muslim countries as well. And even the few wine grapes in said countries mostly end up as grape juice and not wine.
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Nice people are debating, we need a better mappo, with the whole peninsula of Iberia Andalusi, the other is easy, the Greek/Rhomanian survive..somehow.(maybe muslim are more busy in europe?)
Would have full fledge Muslim Iberia vs a Christian Anatolia....wonder would the greek Anatolia just being part of the greek archipelago too?
Would have full fledge Muslim Iberia vs a Christian Anatolia....wonder would the greek Anatolia just being part of the greek archipelago too?