Have Muhammad become a Christian before the first sentence of the Qur'an is ever written. Bonus points if he becomes the "Apostle to the Arabs" or is ascribed some other such similar title. Discuss the effects this has as much as you can.
AHC: Muhammad Becomes A Christian
- Thread starter VirginiaHistoryTeacher
- Start date
If i recall my religion history correctly from high school, the primary source of inspiration for Muhammeds later thoughts was Bahira, or Sergius in the Roman or Eastern history, a Syrian Monk who subscribed to a heretical iconoclast type of Christianity, most often suggested to be either Nestorian, Arian or, rarely, a variant of Syriac Orthodoxy, or prehaps a mixture of several kinds inlcuding one of more of the already mentioned. Muhammed might even have been a layman of one of the christian denominations before thoughts of Islam was born.
Depending on exactly which one of these believes you think Sergius was subscriping to, a Muhammed that didn't split violently from the christian, if otherwise equal with him spreading the religion of his choice, it would be this denomination ... and would still be considered heretics, if prehaps some ever so slightly less heretical, if such a thing is even possible.
Depending on exactly which one of these believes you think Sergius was subscriping to, a Muhammed that didn't split violently from the christian, if otherwise equal with him spreading the religion of his choice, it would be this denomination ... and would still be considered heretics, if prehaps some ever so slightly less heretical, if such a thing is even possible.
As far as I know, in Mecca, before Islam, the pagans forbade non-traditional pagan religions to worship inside the city's premises. While Muhammad, as a trader, naturally got in contact with Christianity before getting the Qur'an revealed to him (he traveled to Yemen with the uncle and met the Christian and Jewish communities there), for him to convert to Christianity, you'd need people n Mecca to allow Christianity to worship inside the walls and/or a little more effort from Christian missionaries in spreading the faith.
Sadly, begin ignorant of ancient Arab history, I have no idea what it would take for this to happen.
But, assuming they do for whatever reason, I think that, given the timeframe, the most likely "conversion sects" that Muhammad would join are, in my humble opinion, Miaphysitism, Oriental Catholic Christianity (the future Orthodox Church) or Nestorianism. Naturally, one can't exclude he could convert to the Western Catholic Church, or Arianism or whatever, but I find those three more likely.
One of the biggest obstacles for him is the fact that Nicene Christianity is a distinct minority among Christians in his part of the Middle East. Islam's strong emphasis on the unity of Allah stems from the views of the Trinity held by various groups he encountered. It would be most unusual for him to emerge as a Western or Eastern Catholic.
All right, going swimming in the minefield here, but-
A lot of the specific details of Islam are very harsh on the unbeliever for broader cultural reasons that made sense at the time; the Arabs were piggy in the middle between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Parthians/Persians, and generally used, abused and crapped on by both sides.
In the same sense the Jewish faith is a means for the Jewish people to survive and remain distinct, the Islamic faith is a means for Arab unity and revenge. It has spread far beyond the Arab states because of the power of the message- love it or hate it, there is no denying how successful it has been.
For Muhammad not to start a religion of his own and for his people, I think you need to start with much fairer and more generous treatment for the Arabs from the Eastern Roman Empire.
A lot of the specific details of Islam are very harsh on the unbeliever for broader cultural reasons that made sense at the time; the Arabs were piggy in the middle between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Parthians/Persians, and generally used, abused and crapped on by both sides.
In the same sense the Jewish faith is a means for the Jewish people to survive and remain distinct, the Islamic faith is a means for Arab unity and revenge. It has spread far beyond the Arab states because of the power of the message- love it or hate it, there is no denying how successful it has been.
For Muhammad not to start a religion of his own and for his people, I think you need to start with much fairer and more generous treatment for the Arabs from the Eastern Roman Empire.
Correct Carribbean Viking,
Islam spread so rapidly because it spread into a power vacuum left between the Persian Empire and the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Orthodox Christian). Arab Muslims had legitimate grievances against both empires, who had repeatedly run rough-shod over Arabia.
But instead of discussing Judaism, Christianity and Islam as three separate religions, what if we discuss them in the context of the 600 year cycle of the prophets?
Let's start with the Prophet Noah who lived roughly 6000 years before Jesus Christ.
Then we fast-forward to the a huffs, who was born in India roughly 600 years before Christ.
Jesus Christ was born (in modern-day Israel) roughly 600 years after the a huffs.
The Prophet Mohammed (may his soul rest in peace) was born in Arabia roughly 600 years after Christ.
The Jewish scholar Moses Mohamedes was born in Islamic Spain roughly 600 years after Mohammed.
Baha u play (sp?) founded the Bahai faith - in Persia - roughly 600 years later (1800
AD).
All of the prophets taught similar messages: monotheism, alms for the poor, respect your neighbour, etc.
During his life-time Jesus Christ described himself as a Jew - more devote than many professional rabbis - but first and foremost a Jew
Mohammed based his faith on the Jewish Old Testament and revered Jesus as a major prophet.
Moses Mohammedes quoted many of the same sources.
Bahais base their teachings on those of Mohammed.
We keep seeing the cycle of the prophets repeated every 600 years or so.
Islam spread so rapidly because it spread into a power vacuum left between the Persian Empire and the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Orthodox Christian). Arab Muslims had legitimate grievances against both empires, who had repeatedly run rough-shod over Arabia.
But instead of discussing Judaism, Christianity and Islam as three separate religions, what if we discuss them in the context of the 600 year cycle of the prophets?
Let's start with the Prophet Noah who lived roughly 6000 years before Jesus Christ.
Then we fast-forward to the a huffs, who was born in India roughly 600 years before Christ.
Jesus Christ was born (in modern-day Israel) roughly 600 years after the a huffs.
The Prophet Mohammed (may his soul rest in peace) was born in Arabia roughly 600 years after Christ.
The Jewish scholar Moses Mohamedes was born in Islamic Spain roughly 600 years after Mohammed.
Baha u play (sp?) founded the Bahai faith - in Persia - roughly 600 years later (1800
AD).
All of the prophets taught similar messages: monotheism, alms for the poor, respect your neighbour, etc.
During his life-time Jesus Christ described himself as a Jew - more devote than many professional rabbis - but first and foremost a Jew
Mohammed based his faith on the Jewish Old Testament and revered Jesus as a major prophet.
Moses Mohammedes quoted many of the same sources.
Bahais base their teachings on those of Mohammed.
We keep seeing the cycle of the prophets repeated every 600 years or so.
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Maybe the Apostle Thomas settles in the Arabian Peninsula rather than venturing off into India and getting executed. Thomas will likely still die, but the church tends to grow when it's harassed. Maybe this is the POD.
Becoming a Christian? - Easy. A piece of cake, actually. One more Christian Arab, nothing extraordinary.
"Apostle to the Arabs" or something like that? - Why not? Establishing Christian community among a few cities and tribes, something like that to deserve that name among his supporters and followers.
But uniting all the Arabs under a Christian banner? Making ground for a spectacular conquest of half the world by the Arabs? -
- I am afraid, but no. Islam as we know it in OTL in the beginning was tailor made religion designed especially for the Arabs. That was the main reason for it's success in Arabia. You don't have to try too hard to impose the Muslim values on the Arabs, it was an ethnic religion in origin. When a pagan Arab saw a Muslim community he instantenuously understood that their way of life was good; and he started to think "Why not join these good guys?"
When a pagan Arab saw a Christian community he did not feel that way.
Wasn't Muhammad seen as a Christian heretic by Western Europe for centuries after founding Islam? I doubt much would changein the perception of him to the West if he considered himself Christian.
If Muhammad started his revolution in the name of Christianity we would not see the striking successes of the Arabs militarily after his death, a Christian fervour would not send them conquering as much as they did. A Christian Arab peninsula is easy enough, but beyond that I don't think so.
If Muhammad started his revolution in the name of Christianity we would not see the striking successes of the Arabs militarily after his death, a Christian fervour would not send them conquering as much as they did. A Christian Arab peninsula is easy enough, but beyond that I don't think so.
I know Turtledove did a story about this. Mohammed becomes the archbishop of Spain in that timeline.
He's apparently re-releasing Agent of Byzantium this summer. Does anyone know if Muhammad the Bishop plays a central role in that story or if he's just a byword?
Barely a mention. Though, obviously a change with far reaching consequences.
Yeah, it's far more likely for him to be a Miaphysite or Nestorian. If he's really lucky, he might be Eastern orthodox.
If it's the former two, then Europe isn't going to feel friendly to the Arabs he manages to convert.
I want an alternate history where a Christian Muhammad is a central figure. He doesn't need to be linked with Rome or with Constantinople or any of that. I'm not looking to join him with a hierarchy. A Nestorian Muhammad would be fine. I would settle for a Muhammad that started his own church. Perhaps I should just write one myself.
I think your best bet is to follow the direction you are already thinking about. Mohammad as the founder of an alternate strain of Christianity that uses the four traditional Christian gospels but adds some additional "gospels" that focus on his own revelations that deemphasize the Trinitarian aspects of Nicean Christianity and speak more directly to the Arab condition.
Sort of like a 7th century Mormonism.
What bothers me in your topic is the manierism involved as much in the Qur'an, the Thora and the Bible. Like it's not enough to go through life knowing
our chance to participate, without giving intents to a supreme being, in the name of what ?! Strange to me that habit, until I realise that the illumination
is a process, not a goal ! Gerard.