AHC Motorcycles and mopeds more popular than cars in present-day Europe and N America

Alex99232

Make motorcycles and mopeds as popular in present-day Europe and North America, as they are in East Asian countries like Vietnam. They need to be the default mode of private road transportation instead of cars.
 
Make motorcycles and mopeds as popular in present-day Europe and North America, as they are in East Asian countries like Vietnam. They need to be the default mode of private road transportation instead of cars.

A low level of wages making the car out of reach for most working class families?
 
Make motorcycles and mopeds as popular in present-day Europe and North America, as they are in East Asian countries like Vietnam. They need to be the default mode of private road transportation instead of cars.

I can certainly see this happening in much of Europe; IOTL, much of the prosperity that the U.S. saw in the '50s didn't quite translate to our friends across the pond, as it were. I can especially see countries like Germany, Austria, and the Low Countries as big motorbike markets; they were amongst the hardest hit by the war and many people simply could not afford any automobiles, let alone nice ones. If a manufacturer can get the formula just right, this objective could very well be a smashing success.

As for North America, I can see this happening in some of the poorer countries like Haiti, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador and Belize
But the U.S. and Canada? It just isn't doable on a national level, sad to say. There is, however, potential that this could become reality in certain metropolitan areas, like San Francisco, Boston, Seattle, or New York, under the right circumstances.
 
Make motorcycles and mopeds as popular in present-day Europe and North America, as they are in East Asian countries like Vietnam. They need to be the default mode of private road transportation instead of cars.
One obvious problem here? Winter. A moped might be an enticing choice when its nice and sunny outside, not so much when it's below freezing and the roads are iced over. Considering those conditions can hit pretty much all of Europe, a deep penetration of mopeds into the consumer market seems doubtful.

As far as I know, many East Asian cities also suffer from much worse urban planning, which causes congestion problems we can hardly dream of in Europe. That makes mopeds a more attractive choice, since they can navigate the mess much more easily.

Really, I could see the car not being that popular, but the replacement would probably be bicycles, buses and trains. Bikes are basically just taking the traits of a moped and exaggerating them, while buses and trains can handle the heavier commute, especially during winter.
 
As a person who used a motorcycle as regular transportation for 40 years, I have some insight. It'll never be universally acceptable. A fellow I talked to, from California, put his cycle away when the temperature got to 55 degrees. I set my limit at 35 below because my carb slides froze up at that temp. Also, it gets uncomfortable at 20 below. Riding two wheels is awkward on ice. One time, a Nissan auto came spinning down the road passed my left and into the barrier on my right. Fortunately, he didn't bounce off, because I wasn't sure I could stop in time. Thick, wet, rutted snow is impossible to ride through on two wheels, and is worse that glare ice. I cannot carry my dog on my motorcycle, but I have carried a cat. She didn't care for it much, though. She sat on my shoulder and howled into my helmet. Shopping for a family can be a real chore. You certainly can't carry two two-fours of beer on a bike. Germany, after WWII was ripe for motorcycles, and they couldn't wait to put their bums into an Isetta, Gogomobile, Messerschmitt, or Topolino, as humble as they were. My left hand is too arthritic to pull a clutch lever now, so I'm out too, although I have two motorcycles in the garage. I still use the bicycle.
 

Alex99232

I was thinking of three scenarios which could induce this ATL (at least in Europe):


1. Worse urban planning in the 19th century causes many European cities to retain medieval-style narrow, winding streets and alleys which could produce East Asia-esque crowded city centres in the present day similar to OTL Bucharest and Oxford.


2. European governments raise car taxes much more drastically in response to both the oil crisis and environmentalism.


3. A poorer Europe likely being caused by a much more severe WW2, or the lack of a Marshall-plan aid from the US. In OTL Communist European countries, a locally produced moped or small motorcycle was the best in private motorized transport an Average Joe could hope for, while even the worst cars like Trabants were considered somewhat luxurious things, reserved for better-off families and state services.
 
In World War One, squads of large-wheeled all-terrain motorcycles are pioneered by an American officer interested in mobility and speed for purposes of reconnaissance, communications, and, ultimately, pinpoint raids on strategic targets. The specialty motorcycles and their riders are glorified in the press and in penny-novel dramatizations.

Returning American servicemen and those that would emulate them (even though far from the majority of the doughboys rode the specialized vehicles, they nonetheless are tied to their dashing image, and they don't really mind) are excited about procuring for themselves the very best (and often the only good) part of the war: Those go-anywhere do-anything hellbent for leather motorcycles.

Mass-manufacturers of the two-wheeled vehicles (Ford et al) are hip to this and instead of switching back to "civilian" cars continue to make the "Army Bikes" and in a new range of bright civilian colors too.

The so-called Army Bikes are a fine fit for the wide swaths of unpaved America, and motorists are intrigued by the Army Bike's superior speed and agility as well as its mechanical simplicity compared to myriad four-wheeled automobiles. With utility racks on the front and back of the machine, it's even practical. (Some buyers rig up a third rear-facing seat on the back rack for small-scale group outings. And naturally households who could afford more than one would make their own miniature biker gangs.)
 

BlondieBC

Banned
In World War One, squads of large-wheeled all-terrain motorcycles are pioneered by an American officer interested in mobility and speed for purposes of reconnaissance, communications, and, ultimately, pinpoint raids on strategic targets. The specialty motorcycles and their riders are glorified in the press and in penny-novel dramatizations.

Returning American servicemen and those that would emulate them (even though far from the majority of the doughboys rode the specialized vehicles, they nonetheless are tied to their dashing image, and they don't really mind) are excited about procuring for themselves the very best (and often the only good) part of the war: Those go-anywhere do-anything hellbent for leather motorcycles.

Excellent idea. The USA squander 1 billion USD (100 billion to 1000 billion in today's terms) on airplanes that largely did not see combat service. So if the USA decides to go with some "mobile breakout explotation" strategy using motorbikes, we would have many 10,000's of bikes trained service men to use them, along with factories gear to make them. Maybe 100,000's of bikes.
 
As a person who used a motorcycle as regular transportation for 40 years, I have some insight. It'll never be universally acceptable.
Yeah, the climate (Especially in Northern Europe) is really going to hamper the use of mopeds. Bikes might also be kind of terrible to drive in such weather, but they also represent a smaller investment, so it's less of a loss when you can't use them. The ability to take them with you on trains is another major bonus.

2. European governments raise car taxes much more drastically in response to both the oil crisis and environmentalism.
How high are you thinking? Because the rate is about 200% in Denmark, and we still don't drive around on mopeds.

http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Registreringsafgiften_i_europa.jpg
(In Danish, but I think you should be able to decode it)

3. A poorer Europe likely being caused by a much more severe WW2, or the lack of a Marshall-plan aid from the US. In OTL Communist European countries, a locally produced moped or small motorcycle was the best in private motorized transport an Average Joe could hope for, while even the worst cars like Trabants were considered somewhat luxurious things, reserved for better-off families and state services.
Did that lead to anything like we see in Thailand nowadays?
 
Taxes

If more cities create a Car Tax (were people have to pay a toll to use their cars within city limits) and Motorcycles are not taxed, it would help. Also if Car Parking was to be made more expensive, lots of peole would consider riding rather than driving to work. The recente European laws that allow anybody with a car license to ride bikes up to 125cc without a specific motorcycle license are also a step towards more bikes.
 
Excellent idea. The USA squander 1 billion USD (100 billion to 1000 billion in today's terms) on airplanes that largely did not see combat service. So if the USA decides to go with some "mobile breakout explotation" strategy using motorbikes, we would have many 10,000's of bikes trained service men to use them, along with factories gear to make them. Maybe 100,000's of bikes.

Hundreds of GIs on motorcycles exploring the french countryside? A MG42 machine gun team dream come true...
 
I cannot imagine riding a motorcycle here. -40degC winters for minimum six months. Snow several meters deep at least six months. Slush & ice minimum 8mo a year. Drivers that treat motos like targets,:eek::mad: if they see them at all.:rolleyes: Motels that won't accept any moto riders 'cause they don't accept "bikers".:rolleyes:

At best, you might see an upswing in cyclecars, & even that takes drastically increased gas taxes, probably special breaks for cyclecars (like in Britain, where they've been treated the same as motos), & maybe things like insurance companies (or government) requiring OE replacement parts on repairs, driving up the cost compared to aftermarket. Relaxed crash standards for cyclecars, & tougher ones for cars, might help, too.
 
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