AHC: Most plausible route for long-lasting German domination of Eastern Europe
- Thread starter Socrates
- Start date
Define Germany, because we obviously cannot talk about such an entity with a 1600 PoD.
Anyway, here's an idea: following the Battle of Mohács, the Habsburgs not only defeat Zapolya at Tarcal on 27 September 1527, but he is also killed. This allows for a near-seamless transition of Hungary to Habsburg hands, avoiding the Ottoman capture of Buda and the destruction of much of the country (well, not by default, but let's assume Ferdinand manages some shrewd diplomacy on the sides). This allows for tighter Habsburg control of Hungary, potential German settlement and Germanization and most importantly avoids early Hungarian nationalism and puts a pro-Habsburg nobility in power which was always the main obstacle for the Habsburgs. This could be a good start, but might not be what you are looking for, plus the PoD is before 1600.
The problem with that is that it also avoids the large scale destruction of Hungary (nearly 200 years of constant raids and outright war) which made settlement necessery in the first place. I mean you can settle german but there will be a lot more hungarians as well. I also dont see how the old nobility would disappear.
Otto Kretschmer
Banned
Prussia somehow keeps Congress Poland after 1815. A massive settlement campaign starts and the region is predominately German by 1900. Dispossessment of old Polish nobility would help This strengthens Germany demographically and strengthens German influence in the Baltics.
It did not exist, even as a concept. How would you define Germany in 1600? HRE? Austria? Hansa cities? Bavaria?
German speakers and the countries they rule, it is not difficult to define...
Faeelin
Banned
"The notion of Germany did not exact. The land called the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation on maps was...." what, in your eyes? A quantum singularity?
Faeelin
Banned
Luther, in 1520:
Now, although the Pope has violently and unjustly robbed the true emperor of the Roman empire, or its name, and has given it to us Germans, yet it is certain that God has used the Pope's wickedness to give the German nation this empire and to raise up a new Roman empire, that exists now, after the fall of the old empire. We gave the Pope no cause for this action, nor did we understand his false aims and schemes; but still, through the craft and knavery of the popes, we have, alas! all too dearly, paid the price of this empire with incalculable bloodshed, with the loss of our liberty, with the robbery of our wealth, especially of our churches and benefices, and with unspeakable treachery and insult. We have the empire in name, but the Pope has our wealth, our honour, our bodies, lives, and souls and all that we have. This was the way to deceive the Germans, and to deceive them by shuffling. What the popes wished was to become emperors; and as they could not do this, they put themselves above the emperors.
Now, although the Pope has violently and unjustly robbed the true emperor of the Roman empire, or its name, and has given it to us Germans, yet it is certain that God has used the Pope's wickedness to give the German nation this empire and to raise up a new Roman empire, that exists now, after the fall of the old empire. We gave the Pope no cause for this action, nor did we understand his false aims and schemes; but still, through the craft and knavery of the popes, we have, alas! all too dearly, paid the price of this empire with incalculable bloodshed, with the loss of our liberty, with the robbery of our wealth, especially of our churches and benefices, and with unspeakable treachery and insult. We have the empire in name, but the Pope has our wealth, our honour, our bodies, lives, and souls and all that we have. This was the way to deceive the Germans, and to deceive them by shuffling. What the popes wished was to become emperors; and as they could not do this, they put themselves above the emperors.
I think he means either Germans as a group and/or countries that are majority German or are ruled by a German minority. Not elite, but an ethnic minority.
Deleted member 90949
Get Germany to chip pieces off of the Russian Empire one by one as opposed to trying to take the entire Empire at once with all of its allies. Once they have a solid mitteleuropa German supremacy is inevitable.
Butterflying the 30 years war to sometihng way less bloody would leave a lot of extra germans alive - if even a franction of them goes to the east as a settlers that should be a significant step in this direction. Add more destructive wars in Poland, the Baltics, Bohemia, Hungary etc and they can make a real difference.
There also might be a lot more Volga germans.
There also might be a lot more Volga germans.
The Kingdom of Germany existed for centuries prior to that. It wasn't very centralised, true, but it was a legal entity.
Holy Roman Emperor Henry II was the first to be given the title of "King of Germany" - his reign was 1002 AD to 1024 AD.
Kingdom of Germany - Wikipedia
Having a foreign king doesn't really count if it's not real dominance at most levels of higher societies.
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Emperor Rudolf II let his brother Mathias marry Anna of Tyrol earlier and they produce a son. This leave a clear heir to the Bohemian crown so even if Ferdinand II is elected emperor, the Bohemian can get away with electing this son king of Bohemia. As the son is a minor, the Bohemians elect a regency council and make sure while this kid may be official Catholic, they make sure to place a lot of Protestants around him.
Sorry guys, it seems I misunderstood the OP, I thought you meant that some kind of united German entity ruling Eastern Europe, but what you actually meant is something like OTL Kurland, ruled by a German-speaking elite with significant German-speaking population.
Mea maxima culpa.
Mea maxima culpa.