AHC: Most of Nazi Rocket Scientists Go To Indonesia and Start New Space Program

anw_rev

Paperclip.jpeg

The challenge is instead of an Operation Paperclip or recruited by Soviet or even Nasser's Egypt, most of German scientists who worked in Peenemunde facility in Second World War for the Third Reich move to newly-founded Republic of Indonesia and able to jumpstart a genuine space program.

What are the correct circumstances to produce this outcome?

Bonus point if this includes Doktor Von Braun.

Double bonus point if you can have an Indonesian manned moon-landing program.

Thanks in advance!
 
marathag

marathag

Banned
anw_rev said:
Plus, of course, some Nazi gold brought from Germany via Netherlands by some Nazis disguised as innocent Dutch citizens?
Click to expand...

even a hundred tons of gold at 1950s prices won't fund much of a rocket program.
The R&D alone for Atlas was almost $400M, production facilities was extra.
And you don't have subcontractors who could do aerospace level quality.
They couldn't even make thetooling, that would make the machines you need for doing liquid fuel rocketry. Need high precision machining.
 
Michel Van

Michel Van

i try to understand the logic behind this AHC

Why Indonesia ?
Were to get money and needed hardware ?
because Indonesia a former colonies of Netherlands was not so much industrialized in end of 1940s.

Why the Americans, Soviets, French, British can not capture them during war or after the War ?
and there is the issue of Israel Mossad would looking for them too for crimes against humanity.
here are Rocket scientist not under protection of USA, French or Britain and Soviet union

How are the Rocket team escaped and arrived save and sound in Indonesia ?
the Ratline to Argentina would make more sense
 
Emperor Norton I

Emperor Norton I

I admire zany concepts. If you can make it work, more power to you. However, the logic does not lend to it. Indonesia is a third world nation which does not have the funding for such a venture. "Nazi gold" is not going to cut it. Germans would neither move there, nor would there be any conceivable capability of getting any "4th Reich" type resources over such a vast distance and on such a scale. Nor is it in the position of either the US or USSR, who controlled Europe, could redraw and manipulate it, and could move people and resources. Both superpowers therefore also had the means to bring those people into their nations and absolve them of any of their crimes. Even if German scientists had conceivably located there, which is inconceivable, the United States or the Soviet Union or even the other world powers would move in to take them up. And if they did not, they would condemn Indonesia as giving aid and comfort to Nazis fleeing prosecution, which is a world of pain in the making.
 
NCW8

NCW8

Also Indonesia didn't become independent until 1949. The Indonesian National Revolution was being fought between 1945 and 1949, so rocket research wasn't going to be a priority.
 

bsmart

Several good points made already

1) Indonesia wasn't independent. The Dutch would not have allowed such a migration. If anything they would have kept them in the Netherlands to rebuild their technology base. But I do not see the Dutch doing that

2) You need to find a country that had enough of an economy to support such a research effort.

A short list of countries that could be considered

Switzerland - Easy to get there from Germany, Not aligned with either side during the war
Sweden - Same as above
Argentina - The traditional choice for ex-nazis to escape to :)
Egypt - Well Kurt Tank went there
South Africa - This was always 'the odd man out' of the Allies. They almost didn't declare war on Germany in 1939, There was already use of German aircraft in the country, Over the next dozen years they became the pariah of the western world because of aparthiad.
 

Garrison

Donor
Surely another issue is that if they don't go to the USA/USSR a lot of these scientists are going to wind up classified as war criminals? And working on a space program means they can't exactly be discretely hiding away like some of those who fled to South America.
 

anw_rev

Michel Van said:
i try to understand the logic behind this AHC

Why Indonesia ?
Were to get money and needed hardware ?
because Indonesia a former colonies of Netherlands was not so much industrialized in end of 1940s.

Why the Americans, Soviets, French, British can not capture them during war or after the War ?
and there is the issue of Israel Mossad would looking for them too for crimes against humanity.
here are Rocket scientist not under protection of USA, French or Britain and Soviet union

How are the Rocket team escaped and arrived save and sound in Indonesia ?
the Ratline to Argentina would make more sense
Click to expand...
Why Indonesia? Well, simple
I'm an Indonesian and I just read the comic Ministry of Space by Warren Ellis

How about earlier conclusion of the Indonesian National Revolution?
With the Dutch agreed on the proposal of Indonesia-Netherlands Union with both parties in equal role.
Or perhaps in the beginning with Indonesia as an autonomous republic of the Dutch throne?

Should the end of the European War be altered to get as close as the scenario want? Maybe the failure of the Operation Overlord or Battle of the Bulge?
 
Emperor Norton I

Emperor Norton I

I can get on board with an international Dutch Federation going to space. I can squint at history and make that work, or someone who wrote it could with enough excuses and reasoning. However, it won't be purely Indonesian.
 
Michel Van

Michel Van

anw_rev said:
Why Indonesia? Well, simple
I'm an Indonesian and I just read the comic Ministry of Space by Warren Ellis

How about earlier conclusion of the Indonesian National Revolution?
With the Dutch agreed on the proposal of Indonesia-Netherlands Union with both parties in equal role.
Or perhaps in the beginning with Indonesia as an autonomous republic of the Dutch throne?

Should the end of the European War be altered to get as close as the scenario want? Maybe the failure of the Operation Overlord or Battle of the Bulge?
Click to expand...

Ahh Now i understand :extremelyhappy:

A Indonesia-Netherlands Union (federation) is interesting Idea, to go into space also.
But still one big problem
How the Dutch can capture All Germans rocket scientists and get them to Indonesian ?

Alternative they could collect some V2 in Belgium and Germany including some Germans rocket scientists.
Similar to French effort to get so much German rocket hardware and scientists in there hands
There advance V2 project never became realty, but it lay the cornerstone for french Space Program
 
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