AHC: More Unusual Romance Languages

Lothal

Lothal

cmakk1012 said:
Maybe it could last as a Romance speaking city in the event of a lasting Palmyrene Empire? Alternatively, a scenario where Syria fell to Persians/Arabs earlier?




You could also get one through a Latin-speaking colony getting conquered by a non-Latin speaking power and then leaving the Latin speakers isolated enough to evolve their language for a while.
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It would be more Syriac + Romance.
Interesting scenario i thought of / used for my map timeline: During the collapse of the Roman Empire the region roughly around the Diocese of Oriens becomes a Roman successor state, then the Arabs/Muslims invade and the Caliphate technically becomes an Arabic Roman successor state.

Interesting idea for a language: lost roman colony language.
 
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Silver01

iam really intrested in Balkan romance had the slavic migrations been only limited to the north its quite possible part of the danube would speak a latin language
 

funnyhat

NewEnglish said:
Is there a way for a new romance language to evolve in the Americas like afrikaans did in Africa?
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My understanding of Afrikaans was that it began as a creole and gradually de-creolized to become more like Dutch, but retained some grammatical differences. A similar process could have happened with Haitian or Antillean Creole, or Papiamento.

Alternatively, Brazilian Portuguese or Canadian French could have diverged further from the European forms. Canada went through a similar political development as South Africa (conquered by the British and isolated from the former mother country), but there remained a strong desire to keep the language comprehensible with the French of France, at least in its standard form. Perhaps there could have been a movement to "Canadianize" it more and promote the colloquial dialectal forms, which diverge more.
 

Nivek

Lothal said:
Interesting idea for a language: lost roman colony language.
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Which map and the thing of the colony meme..it need a massive population can substain themselves yet small enough can survive any other hostile and yet getting lost from Rome records ( and that comes both ways too,they would try to contact the eternal city one way or the other) plus that would be Latin not romance
 

PrinceofApathy

If the Crusaders won and established a long-lasting population, we could see two. A unique dialect of Jerusalem French with more Latin and Arabic influences for the nobility, and a French/Arabic creole for the commoners.
 

Reyne

Nivek said:
That's a good example, a more successful Andalus could expand it massively.
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Nope, people forget that the Arab elite of al-andalus encouraged Arabic over mozarabic and one of the reasons Mozarabic died off in the deep south of Iberia is because the Arabs and Mulladis preffered Arabic over it. It was only ever spoken en mass by the mozarabs themselves, who either adopted the less "Islamic" languages of their Christian kindred up north during the reconquista or who themselves were forced by their environment to switch to Arab in the south.
 

vultan

What about a Romance-speaking England with a late POD, well after the Anglo-Saxon migrations? Say, the Norman conquerors are better able to establish the French language among the common people of the island, or even something with a Spanish invasion.
 

Analytical Engine

Reyne said:
Nope, people forget that the Arab elite of al-andalus encouraged Arabic over mozarabic and one of the reasons Mozarabic died off in the deep south of Iberia is because the Arabs and Mulladis preffered Arabic over it. It was only ever spoken en mass by the mozarabs themselves, who either adopted the less "Islamic" languages of their Christian kindred up north during the reconquista or who themselves were forced by their environment to switch to Arab in the south.
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Does an alternate version of Andalusian Spanish being its own language instead count?
 

Reyne

Analytical Engine said:
Does an alternate version of Andalusian Spanish being its own language instead count?
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Not in the long run. Andalusia was the heart of Spain's colonial empire and thus suffered massive immigration from the mostly poor rest of Spain, which brought its dialects closer to Castilian than anything.

An Arab-Romance influenced language is for me more pfobable in Morocco than in Andalusia. Had the Portuguese managed to conquer the Rif and Gharb in Western Morocco, it is very probable that some kind of Portuguese-Arab creole would have formed, and had Morocco converted to Christianity would have easily formed a separate language.
 
Jonathan Edelstein

Jonathan Edelstein

NewEnglish said:
Is there a way for a new romance language to evolve in the Americas like afrikaans did in Africa?
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Haitian Creole exists IOTL. It might be possible for similar languages to develop with Spanish or Portuguese substrates if any large quilombos or marron settlements can make their independence stick.
 

Analytical Engine

Jonathan Edelstein said:
Haitian Creole exists IOTL. It might be possible for similar languages to develop with Spanish or Portuguese substrates if any large quilombos or marron settlements can make their independence stick.
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IIRC, most Caribbean creoles have a decent number of words derived from Portuguese and/or Spanish, so it's not as if this isn't possible.

Oh wait...

en.wikipedia.org

Portuguese-based creole languages - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

Spanish-based creole languages - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Neoteros

Neoteros

If the Alemanni hadn't been able to go as far south as they did, it's very likely that there would be a Rhaeto-Romance belt spanning the whole eastern side of the Alps; an unified Rhaeto-Romance polity would be hard to establish, since we're talking about a very mountainous region, however.

If the Thornton expedition had succeeded, there could be some kind of Tuscan-descended language in what is now French Guyana, probably sharing the same archaisms as Corsican, but with a large amount of loanwords from the native tongues of the region.
 
JorgeGG

JorgeGG

For other romance languages besides Italian, Sardinian, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Romanian, Catalonian and their dialectal variations

Creoles, not pidgins, with enough time and population speaking it can become literary languages as Spanish or French

My picks
Any creole develop in the Caribbean that becomes the official lingua franca of the Caribbean . For example
*Kreyol (French based)
* Palanquero (Kikongo and Spanish) in the Coast of Colombia
*Another Kikongo and Spanish/Portuguese creole in the Congo basin.
*Papiamento (Spanish and Portuguese)
*One or two creoles in the Philippines and Indonesia
*Portuñol (Portuguese and Spanish) around the River plate basin
*Lunfardo (Italian and Spanish), Why Not!!!!
*a creole based on Guarani influence by Spanish and Portuguese w

For languages
* a surviving African Romance in northern Africa. Perhaps a sociolect or diglosia developts between Arabic and African Romance
*one or two creoles from Bantu and African romance
*An Arab-Romance derived from African Romance, like Maltese
*Mozarabic, tough I have my doubts as its in the fringes of it more robust neighbors Andalusian Arabic, Leonese and Castilian
*Ladino in the Iberian peninsula and northern Africa
*A surviving Dalmatian in the eastern shores of the Adriatic sea and perhaps a derivation of Venetian also
*Catalan, more widespread in southern France and in competition with Occitanian
 
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Gloss

Reyne said:
Not in the long run. Andalusia was the heart of Spain's colonial empire and thus suffered massive immigration from the mostly poor rest of Spain, which brought its dialects closer to Castilian than anything.

An Arab-Romance influenced language is for me more pfobable in Morocco than in Andalusia. Had the Portuguese managed to conquer the Rif and Gharb in Western Morocco, it is very probable that some kind of Portuguese-Arab creole would have formed, and had Morocco converted to Christianity would have easily formed a separate language.
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Andalusian was always close to Castillian since 1300 or so though.
 
DanMcCollum

DanMcCollum

What about Dalmatian surviving to the modern period? That's one that has always fascinated me.

Also, perhaps a timeline where Aquitain maintains it's independence and enters into the colonial race - this should be enough to preserve and promote Occitanian.

For that matter, is there any way to preserve the linguistic diversity of France? Obviously the dialects around Paris will gain in prominence as time goes on - but there has to be a way to make the other dialects/languages stronger in relationship to the Metropolitain speech.
 
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