AHC: More Paraguay-like cases(not just in the Americas)

Gloss

Basically the objective is, with a POD around 1000-1500, to have more populations that have substantial European admixture(like Paraguay, which is 50-60% European, believe it or not) and also native admixture(of course) that still speaks a native tongue along side their European tongue OR speaks a very strongly European influenced native tongue OR speaks a strongly native influence European tongue.

Some potential good regions:
  1. Chile, OTL Chile has a similar ancestral make up as Paraguay but obviously less speakers of native languages, the Mapuches seems to have dominated enough the region and the region was isolated enough that I could see such a scenario happening.
  2. The inland Andes, they don't have much European admixture today, so little in fact that I don't think it should fullfill the requirements for "substantial European admixture" but in case we have it I can still see Quechua or Aymara making a stronger impact or even remain the majority tongue.
  3. Mesoamerica, especially with the core Maya speakers that contiguously occupied a large region, but also the core areas of Otomanguean and Uto-Aztecan. Tarascan is also a possibiltiy, but beyond that it seems the languages are too small to compete.
 
Sarufiyyun

Sarufiyyun

Tupi was the language of Brazil for the first few centuries. Prolong the discovery of gold and you would have a Portuguese-influenced Tupi language dominant there.
 

Gloss

ramones1986 said:
You forgot Brazil, most particularly the Amazonian region.
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At least OTL the Amazon region doesn't particularly have much more native admixture, not compared to Paraguay. But I guess if Tupi has any chance of becoming strong it would be here.

Sarufiyyun said:
Tupi was the language of Brazil for the first few centuries. Prolong the discovery of gold and you would have a Portuguese-influenced Tupi language dominant there.
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Do you have any source on that? I'm pretty sure this is not true given the massive amount of slavery Brazil had and also early Portuguese settlers.

Help said:
You just need the dictator to mandate 'mixing' like what happened in Paraguay, I think.
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Why would state-mandated mixing increase the likelihood of this? There are other mixed states like Chile, Venezuela and others that are not like this.
 

Help

Gloss said:
Why would state-mandated mixing increase the likelihood of this? There are other mixed states like Chile, Venezuela and others that are not like this.
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If I'm not mistaken, that is what happened in Paraguay, since all white people had to marry Native Americans, the families were likely to learn both.
 

Gloss

Help said:
If I'm not mistaken, that is what happened in Paraguay, since all white people had to marry Native Americans, the families were likely to learn both.
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Sure but ultimately that's what had to happen everywhere, be if under Spanish rule or in the 19th century, you only get mixed people one way, lol
 

Help

Gloss said:
Sure but ultimately that's what had to happen everywhere, be if under Spanish rule or in the 19th century, you only get mixed people one way, lol
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Did the other countries mix to that extent though? Otherwise, the rate of mixing seems like it would be quite a bit lower.
 

Peppe

Gloss said:
Do you have any source on that? I'm pretty sure this is not true given the massive amount of slavery Brazil had and also early Portuguese settlers.
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Brazilian here speaking, as far as I know until the Pombaline period much of the settled regions of Brazil spoke either portuguese or a tupi-based language that was heavily influenced by portuguese created by the Jesuits during the catequization of the natives (Pombal made portuguese the sole language and nowadays it has around 10.000 speakers), since at the same time that portuguese settled, many of the lower classes married natives due to the lack of poor portuguese women coming to Brazil (there was even a try to have criminals and prostitutes be sent to Brazil to settle)
 

Gloss

Help said:
Did the other countries mix to that extent though? Otherwise, the rate of mixing seems like it would be quite a bit lower.
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Chile is so mixed that I believe even most self-identified Mapuches approach the national average and regional averages are also reasonably close, that's a lot of mixing!


Global-ancestry-estimates-per-zones-a-The-larger-pie-chart-on-the-left-panel.png
 

Gloss

Peppe said:
Brazilian here speaking, as far as I know until the Pombaline period much of the settled regions of Brazil spoke either portuguese or a tupi-based language that was heavily influenced by portuguese created by the Jesuits during the catequization of the natives (Pombal made portuguese the sole language and nowadays it has around 10.000 speakers), since at the same time that portuguese settled, many of the lower classes married natives due to the lack of poor portuguese women coming to Brazil (there was even a try to have criminals and prostitutes be sent to Brazil to settle)
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I guess those could be factor to have a Tupi language stay prominent in a mixed population in Northern Brazil(well for the South we already have Guarani as an example):
  1. Less trans-atlantic slavery, this would mean likely a lot more native admixture where African slaves were brought since the 16th century and also more continuity in the early population(which ties to the previous point) and less linguistic diversity which would certainly help Tupi languages over Portuguese given again the natives would be a larger share of the population.
  2. Maybe a bit bigger early Portuguese emigration to Brazil, which would create a larger Mestizo(but still more native than European at this point in time) class that officializes the usage of both a Tupi variety and Portuguese and then spreads it throughout the coast, this ties to the idea that the earlier we get the a mestizo population that directly interacts with a recently conquered/subjugated native populations the more native influence we get, but this is not exactly the Paraguayan case so maybe this is not the way to go.
  3. Earlier independence of (north) Brazil, maybe we can envision a scenario where a Iberian union happens but rather than Brazil being invaded by the Dutch we have Brazil becoming independent.
  4. Later immigration of Europe is still massive but instead of assimilating into a largely Portuguese speaking populaiton they are absorbed in a bilingual Portuguese-Tupi community, so even if they are majority European(like the Paraguaians) they would be speaking a native language.
 
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