AHC: More Orthodox Countries

With a POD or PODS before 1071, have more nations accept the Orthodox Rite of Christianity, and stay that way for a good amount of time.

I was thinking about Harald Hardrada converting while in the Varangian Guard, and then becoming the King of Norway, Denmark, and England, and then converting them all.
 
With a POD or PODS before 1071, have more nations accept the Orthodox Rite of Christianity, and stay that way for a good amount of time.

I was thinking about Harald Hardrada converting while in the Varangian Guard, and then becoming the King of Norway, Denmark, and England, and then converting them all.

Romans retaking Rome and mending the schism? Not sure how likely that would be, but greater success against the muslims would give the ERE a better base to attempt such a strategy.

Granted this is mainly based on a game of CK 2 I once played but is still somewhat possible given suitable conditions.
 
Great Moravia was aligned to the Eastern Roman Empire for some time. If that can last the Czechs, Slovaks and Hungarians might have adopted the Orthodox rite.
 
It would have been theoretically possible for the Scandinavian countries to have gone Orthodox instead of Catholic. Sweden, in particular, had a fair bit of contact with the Rus and thus Miklagard (Constantinople). But, Harald Hardrada famously was part of the Varangian guard there. There were Orthodox missionaries in Iceland before Iceland went officially Christian.

So. While low probability, Sweden, Norway and Iceland (in that order) had chances to go Orthodox.

A major conflict with the Roman hierarchy in the early years of Christianity in the North might induce a king of Sweden or Norway to switch allegiance.
 
As many have said, Scandinavia is a possibility. Also, due to proximity, I'm inclined to believe Hungary, Bohemia, and much of the Western Slavs (poland) could have gone Orthodox.

But when you get down to it, the best way for more orthodox countries to appear is to have Rome do better against Muslims.
 
What hasn't been considered thus far it seems is the possibility of later conversions. There's an interesting TL that has Saladin converting to Orthodox and forming an Orthodox Egypt.

Basically the Orthodox Church needs to be in a position to do more evangelization and outreach. And yes, Rome needs to do better against the Muslims.
 
What hasn't been considered thus far it seems is the possibility of later conversions. There's an interesting TL that has Saladin converting to Orthodox and forming an Orthodox Egypt.

Basically the Orthodox Church needs to be in a position to do more evangelization and outreach. And yes, Rome needs to do better against the Muslims.

Saladin converting to Eastern Orthodox Christianity?:p While you're at it, why not have Justinian's Empire conquer the world or Zeus descend from the sky and endorse Rome?
 
Saladin converting to Eastern Orthodox Christianity?:p While you're at it, why not have Justinian's Empire conquer the world or Zeus descend from the sky and endorse Rome?

Quite.

As for the above poster, if by "Rome", you mean the Byzantines, there was plenty of success over Muslim powers in the ninth and tenth centuries, none of which led to serious levels conversion back to Christianity.
 

scholar

Banned
Quite.

As for the above poster, if by "Rome", you mean the Byzantines, there was plenty of success over Muslim powers in the ninth and tenth centuries, none of which led to serious levels conversion back to Christianity.
Because the population was predominately Christian anyways.

It was after the Mongols that Christianity was dealt a death blow in the Middle East, and even then it lingered on at least until the Ottomans before fading into middle class urban residents.
 
Because the population was predominately Christian anyways.

It was after the Mongols that Christianity was dealt a death blow in the Middle East, and even then it lingered on at least until the Ottomans before fading into middle class urban residents.

I'm well aware of that.

Near Eastern Christianity had probably been on the decline since long before the Mongols though. Most estimates I've seen suggest that Christians were ceasing to be a majority of the population by around the year 1000. The process would probably have worked itself out with or without Mongol intervention.
 

scholar

Banned
I'm well aware of that.

Near Eastern Christianity had probably been on the decline since long before the Mongols though. Most estimates I've seen suggest that Christians were ceasing to be a majority of the population by around the year 1000. The process would probably have worked itself out with or without Mongol intervention.
I am far less convinced, areas where the Mongols did not raze had significant christian populations. In fact, in the early 20th century, the Middle East was 20% Christian by a number of estimates, while now it is just about 5%.
 
The baltic peoples could have been converted as well by orthodox missionaires, perhaps by Rus'-Kiev state(s), superspeeding the 'crusaders' and all, in theory...

One thread idea I had recently was in the 'chaos' of Reformation and catholic strike backs and all, if Orthodoxy could have made some small gains at least in this, like a surprise third ption...
Like maybe eastern european peasants or lords, tired of the hellish fighting between catholic and protestant lords, AND maybe between branches of the protestantism (it's another less used scenario I feels), appeals to Russia perhaps... converting to russian orthodoxy to be left alone?
 
What hasn't been addressed is the matter of conversion. Everyone was so keen to jump on what I said about Rome/Rhomaion and Saladin, that the point went ignored.

I'm talking about Constantine-esque conversions.

What of Khazaria? AFAIK, the Khagan basically picked Judaism only because he wanted a Faith of the Book that wasn't Islam or Christianity; what could have made him choose Christianity?
 
What hasn't been addressed is the matter of conversion. Everyone was so keen to jump on what I said about Rome/Rhomaion and Saladin, that the point went ignored.

I'm talking about Constantine-esque conversions.

What of Khazaria? AFAIK, the Khagan basically picked Judaism only because he wanted a Faith of the Book that wasn't Islam or Christianity; what could have made him choose Christianity?
Maybe if Islam still was around, but potentially another competitor.. As a surviving Buddhism in central asia, Ghandara-Soghdians and all.. The problem, is the arrival of the former is much the cause of the fading of the later, a contributor for sure..
 

raharris1973

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In a scenario where the West Slavs, Scandinavians, Balts and Magyars go Orthodox, long term knock-on would be interesting.

Despite probably some temporary occupation by Orthodox Scandinavian rulers, England will probably remain loyal to Rome. Even if their homeland of Denmark is Orthdox, Normans in Normandy, England and Italy will probably remain loyal to Rome.

There is going to more of a cultural divide between the Germans on the one hand and the Poles, Czechs and Hungarians on the other. The Orthodox Tsars of these states in the medieval era will worry more about spiritual contamination by German merchants and craftsmen who they encouraged to immigrate in OTL. They may try to poach more Greeks with comparable skills. On the other hand, they might be fairly trusting of converts, leading to Germans immigrating and probably basically assimilating into Slavic and Magyar societies as they convert when they emigrate and start hearing slavic liturgies in church all the time.

Butterflies will prevent the western schisms and reformation for occurring exactly as they did. But supposing there is a rough analogue of Reformed thought after the invention of printing, I think a completely successful "counter-reformation" in the historic western Christian zone (northern Germany, Netherlands, England) is fairly likely. With Hungarians, Czechs and most of all Danes and Swedes as uninterested, Orthodox "neutrals" in any schism among western heretics, the alternate version of the Protestant side won't have key geopolitical support to survive the reaction from those loyal to Rome. Certainly not in Germany, Netherlands and Switzerland. Perhaps, just maybe, England could make a break with Rome stick.
 
For all we know, a sort of protestant reformation or at least more 'radical breakout' groups may come from the Orthodox side in such scenarios - albeit more if one group or patriarch gain more influence perhaps, like a surviving Byzantium and Constantinople Patriarch solid, OR the Russian one gainning gynormous power-influence...
 
How about the Russians gaining a bit more traction in America and a successor state being Orthodox? Cool if nothing else.
 
I am far less convinced, areas where the Mongols did not raze had significant christian populations. In fact, in the early 20th century, the Middle East was 20% Christian by a number of estimates, while now it is just about 5%.

This was mainly in Greater Syria though, an area which remains incredibly diverse religiously until today.
 
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