Okay, so your challenge here is to make industrialization more extensive. Worldwide.

Yes, you read that right. Make industrialization more extensive worldwide.

Ideally (although this is very implausible), this results in pretty much every nation force-marching their industry forward, Soviet-style, in a desperate attempt to be able to compete with every other nation despite said other nations also doing the exact thing, resulting in a dieselpunk-esqe 20th century and possibly an even more devastating world war or two.

Yes, this probably isn't going to be a very pleasant timeline...

Note: Although every country should be at least slightly more industrialized, countries that in OTL were more agrarian and undeveloped should receive a larger increase in industrialization than countries that in OTL were already extensively industrialized.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Considering that Widespread use of renewables is allowed for this AHC,I can think of that possibility around the World. A more early,stronger and focused development of sustainable energy could achieve this around the world.
 

Mr. House

Banned
Maybe actual democratic socialism takes off? So citizens and workers around the globe can direct their own industrial development and decolonizing nations see it as the best way to blitz industry?

So if the imperial north becomes democratically socialist with a techno utopian bint and the global south adopts it as well? With the only differences in like the style of democracy and the style of socialism?

The development of these more inclusive economies focused on human standard of living *might* lead to a more industrial planet. Then again it could also lead to a less industrial one. After all we only need a fraction of our industry today to meet our core needs and so much of our productive ability is wasted on rampant consumerism.
 
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I like how I had a dystopian scenario in mind and both of the proposed scenarios are actually pretty utopian. No, I'm being serious. I like it.
 
I like how I had a dystopian scenario in mind and both of the proposed scenarios are actually pretty utopian. No, I'm being serious. I like it.
Indeed, if you want dystopian industrialization I'd say OTL is probably near the limit. If industrialization is not guided, successfully, by humanistic goals and regulated with the common good shrewdly but ethically borne in mind, then one gets laissez-faire development and that quite naturally tends, motivated by greed, to push to the very limits of available short-term profitability. Thus I would think quite maximizing the rate of development possible in conditions where a conscious, ethical guiding hand does not observe clashes of interest, and resolve them in an ethical manner--which I think, offset as it may be by short term opportunity costs and the overhead burden of maintaining the infrastructure (or if you like, guiding superstructure) of intelligent and comprehensive oversight, would increase the potentials for long term expansion and accelerate the rate of successful innovation. If the investment in ethical superstructure pays off as I think it would, it would tend to be accepted and taken for granted, and thus people who without this governance would "naturally" be suspicious and resentful and resist would instead have grounds for optimism when someone comes along with a brilliant new money making scheme they are asked to be involved in. If they know that if things go sour someone sympathetic will help them dig themselves out of the hole and set them back on their feet, and if it turns out they went sour due to someone's disingenuous malice and greed that that person will be tracked down and made to help set things right, then they need be less suspicious of change. If ethics in due course comes to incorporate the idea of ecological responsibility and sustainability, then yet other constraints in the long run are avoided (by of course, accepting prudent restraints and caution in the short run as unavoidable necessities to be factored into general optimization schemes.

In OTL, the idea that ethics should be incorporated into business is pretty quaint, and appears as an opposition between the natural self interest of individuals and the debated level of required state oversight and regulation, with the latter under deep ideological suspicion.

I suspect then that we are operating near the limits of the possible versus dystopian potentials; we pretty much only bring ethics onto the table when things have broken down manifestly. We can imagine a world where this that or the other restraint on raw greed might be absent, but I suspect in such a world a short run surge beyond what is accomplished in a certain field OTL is followed by a crash which OTL with our empirically compelled rudimentary rules of fair play avoids or postpones until overall production is somewhat more, and either this hellhole ATL we imagine learns to acquire a comparable grab bag of ethical restraints comparable in magnitude and effectiveness to our own, or else it keeps crashing and burning and thus overall falling behind OTL potentials. So I am not saying OTL is the worst imaginable, but I do think it lies near the raw edge of what is the worst optimal, if you see what I mean.

Mind, I am not saying ATLs as bad as ours, which is to say in some respects worse in particular matters, are unlikely, nor that an ethically guided more extensive productivity is more likely or even as likely. Rather I am saying that such higher industrialized worlds would be as rare as Utopias, because they would have to be Utopias!

If you want to see what dumb raw greed can accomplish at the limits of its effectiveness--look around!
 
Indeed, if you want dystopian industrialization I'd say OTL is probably near the limit. If industrialization is not guided, successfully, by humanistic goals and regulated with the common good shrewdly but ethically borne in mind, then one gets laissez-faire development and that quite naturally tends, motivated by greed, to push to the very limits of available short-term profitability. Thus I would think quite maximizing the rate of development possible in conditions where a conscious, ethical guiding hand does not observe clashes of interest, and resolve them in an ethical manner--which I think, offset as it may be by short term opportunity costs and the overhead burden of maintaining the infrastructure (or if you like, guiding superstructure) of intelligent and comprehensive oversight, would increase the potentials for long term expansion and accelerate the rate of successful innovation. If the investment in ethical superstructure pays off as I think it would, it would tend to be accepted and taken for granted, and thus people who without this governance would "naturally" be suspicious and resentful and resist would instead have grounds for optimism when someone comes along with a brilliant new money making scheme they are asked to be involved in. If they know that if things go sour someone sympathetic will help them dig themselves out of the hole and set them back on their feet, and if it turns out they went sour due to someone's disingenuous malice and greed that that person will be tracked down and made to help set things right, then they need be less suspicious of change. If ethics in due course comes to incorporate the idea of ecological responsibility and sustainability, then yet other constraints in the long run are avoided (by of course, accepting prudent restraints and caution in the short run as unavoidable necessities to be factored into general optimization schemes.

In OTL, the idea that ethics should be incorporated into business is pretty quaint, and appears as an opposition between the natural self interest of individuals and the debated level of required state oversight and regulation, with the latter under deep ideological suspicion.

I suspect then that we are operating near the limits of the possible versus dystopian potentials; we pretty much only bring ethics onto the table when things have broken down manifestly. We can imagine a world where this that or the other restraint on raw greed might be absent, but I suspect in such a world a short run surge beyond what is accomplished in a certain field OTL is followed by a crash which OTL with our empirically compelled rudimentary rules of fair play avoids or postpones until overall production is somewhat more, and either this hellhole ATL we imagine learns to acquire a comparable grab bag of ethical restraints comparable in magnitude and effectiveness to our own, or else it keeps crashing and burning and thus overall falling behind OTL potentials. So I am not saying OTL is the worst imaginable, but I do think it lies near the raw edge of what is the worst optimal, if you see what I mean.

Mind, I am not saying ATLs as bad as ours, which is to say in some respects worse in particular matters, are unlikely, nor that an ethically guided more extensive productivity is more likely or even as likely. Rather I am saying that such higher industrialized worlds would be as rare as Utopias, because they would have to be Utopias!

If you want to see what dumb raw greed can accomplish at the limits of its effectiveness--look around!

I get your reasoning, but if you'll allow me, I'd like to express reasonable doubt that every single timeline more industrialized than our own is more utopian. Take a look at Stalin's force-marched Russian industry, which killed millions of people, for example. I'm not going to lie, industrialization is good for a nation in the 20th century, but some ways people get there can be pretty bad, especially if you lopsidedly focus on military industry...
 
IMO, you don't need to force anything, just do two things: get rid of colonial empires sooner, in favor of commonwealths, & reduce the fear of cheap exports (especially agricultural ones) into industrial societies. Between the two, you should see an increase in demand from the (now) 2d World (there'd be no "3d"), plus increased production & industrialization as standards of living go up.

You might also need a new, cheap energy source, though oil is a likely one to start with. Something like ocean thermal becoming common would be good, IMO, but not essential.

Less-colonized Africa might lead to an earlier WW1, however, so not an unvarnished good.:oops:

If you got lower population globally, as following the Black Death, in the 1700-1900 period, you could get much the same result without war, IMO: lower population means higher demand for labor means higher wages & standards of living for survivors means spending disposable income means industrialization. (*whew*)
 
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