AHC: Mongolia-wank

Red Horse

The challenge is to wank Mongolia as far as possible. Bonus if it becomes a major power by the 21st century.
 
With post-1900 POD? It would be very difficult make even bigger Mongolia. You might include Tuva to Mongolia but any bigger or great power status is totally impossible when its only neighbours are much stronger than Mongolia. And Mongolia should be very expansive too. In Axis vicotory scenadio Mongolia might have Tuva and Inner Mongolia but hardly any more.
 
Considering that Mongolia only has around 500,000 people at the beginning of the 20th century, it's going to be really hard unless Mongolia expands. Only plausible scenario is if the Chinese civil war went a LOT messier and Mongolia managed to gain Inner Mongolia (industry and a large population). That would make it a semi-power at best, unless China is Balkanized.
 
I'm sure AH.com's resident supervillian (besides Woodrow Wilson) Roman von Ungern-Sternberg and a messier Chinese and Russian Civil war could get something like this done.
 

ben0628

Banned
Considering that Mongolia only has around 500,000 people at the beginning of the 20th century, it's going to be really hard unless Mongolia expands. Only plausible scenario is if the Chinese civil war went a LOT messier and Mongolia managed to gain Inner Mongolia (industry and a large population). That would make it a semi-power at best, unless China is Balkanized.

You would also have to deal with the Soviet Union as well. According to Wikipedia, Mongolia became a soviet satellite state in 1924.

So first you need to make sure that the Bolsheviks don't win the Russian civil war.
 
I'm sure AH.com's resident supervillian (besides Woodrow Wilson) Roman von Ungern-Sternberg and a messier Chinese and Russian Civil war could get something like this done.

Pretty much this. Maybe if the Reds lose the Russian Civil War and the Whites collapse into infighting, Ungern-Sternberg could become of the warlords. All in all, a warlord-ravaged realm stretching from Eastern Europe to the Far East would make a breeding ground for a second Mongol Empire. Sadly, even then, it'd take an enormous amount of fortune for Mongolia to emerge on top, not to mention trying to hold together Mongolia as a White Russian warlord.
 
From what I've been reading the Mongols had basically managed to rebel and take over Outer Mongolia, which had some small backing by Russia. If you avert WWI Russia, there might have a chance to provide more support, couple that with a messier Chinese Civil War than there is a chance Outer Mongolia could be taken.
 
Give Mongolia 20-30 more years in OTL; it's done well since the fall of communism. It had a crisis in the 1990s, but it was shallower than in the USSR proper, and since 2000 it's grown by a factor of 2.5. Growth projections remain pretty good, even though China (by far its top trading partner) isn't doing great right now.

Alternatively, have an earlier fall of communism, or some sort of crisis that forces the USSR to let go of some satellites earlier, including Mongolia. A smoother transition to capitalism in Russia would have had positive knock-on effects on Mongolia. Earlier Chinese growth, e.g. if Mao had died ten years earlier, could also help, but then I'm worried that a POD in the 1960s might butterfly away Mongolia's successful transition. Most former Soviet republics and satellites have not fared so well, and the exceptions tend to be states that have integrated into the European economy, such as Poland.

EDIT: reading the rest of the thread more carefully, I'm somewhat astonished that some people here think that subjecting Mongolia to Chinese-style warlordism is a wank rather than a screw. Guys, size isn't everything. Europe's most wanked country is Switzerland, not Britain or Germany or wherever.
 
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Maybe have Mongolia become a Soviet satellite as OTL, but prevent the republicans from overthrowing the Qing dynasty (or at least delay it significantly). Qing China is in an even more unstable position than OTL China and would be quite hostile to the Soviet Union. As a result the USSR invests heavily in building up Mongolia as a bulwark against feudal reaction and colonialism in the East, possibly also giving them Tuva, Altai, and Buryatia (or parts of them at least). As Qing China falls apart under the strains of republican uprisings, Japanese invasions, and warlordism Mongolia is able to expand into the power vacuum, at the very least directly annexing inner Mongolia, as well as possibly Dzungaria, and likely projecting influence into Manchuria, the Tarim Basin and Northern China. If the Soviets and their allies are as successful as OTL in the aftermath of WW2 then Mongolia could end up positioning themselves as a dominant power broker in the East Asian Communist Bloc, especially if China is balkanised. In addition give Mongolia an independent nuclear deterrent, and you have a decent sized regional power capable of punching well above their weight.
 
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Maybe have Mongolia become a Soviet satellite as OTL, but prevent the republicans from overthrowing the Qing dynasty (or at least delay it significantly).

Not gonna happen, the only reason why (Outer) Mongolia is still even an independent nation to this day is because when the Whites took over Outer Mongolia, the Soviets figured if the Chinese where not going to do anything they had to. If Roman von Sternberg doesn't conquer Outer Mongolia, the Russian's won't care if China takes it back. Outer Mongolia did break away from China but that was during the upheaval of the 1911 revolution, after the Qing revoked their tax privileges on the Mongol nobility.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
I'm sure AH.com's resident supervillian (besides Woodrow Wilson) Roman von Ungern-Sternberg and a messier Chinese and Russian Civil war could get something like this done.

Yes, but that's because the AH.com von Ungern-Sternberg is a fantasy character and nothing like the real von Ungern-Sternberg.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Not gonna happen, the only reason why (Outer) Mongolia is still even an independent nation to this day is because when the Whites took over Outer Mongolia, the Soviets figured if the Chinese where not going to do anything they had to. If Roman von Sternberg doesn't conquer Outer Mongolia, the Russian's won't care if China takes it back. Outer Mongolia did break away from China but that was during the upheaval of the 1911 revolution, after the Qing revoked their tax privileges on the Mongol nobility.

Well Imperial Russia had considered Outer Mongolia in their zone of interest since 1911. The baron's expedition was kind of a fluke, deriving from the need of escaping the advancing Red Army and because he had burned his bridges with Semyonov at that point. Of course he tried to make Mongolia the base for his crazy ambition to restore both the Qing dynasty and the Romanov Imperial family to power.

But you have a point that the USSR might not have cared enough about Outer Mongolia, relations with the Chinese would have been more important. So it was really the baron's crazy campaign that put Mongolia in the Soviet sphere. Likewise a White Russia would likely have cared more about Chinese relations as well. So the existence of an independent Mongolia today have to do with a mad man going there out of desperation.
 
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