AHC: Mongol-Wank

Pretty straightforward title, so how do you about making the Mongol conquer even more than OTL, for example:

-Mongols invade India.
-Mongols manage to take Japan.
-Mongols take the Levant and Egypt.
-Mongols stay united after Ogedei dies later, Mongols stay in Poland,Baltic states and possibly Hungary.
-Mongols conquer the Byzantine Empire.
-Mongols invade Italy.

Now I don´t know if you can manage to make the Mongols complete the list but I guess they could still fare better than OTL.
 

Deleted member 97083

-Mongols invade India.

Prevent the ascendancy of the Delhi Sultanate, and this could definitely happen.

-Mongols manage to take Japan.

Without the two unexpected storms, the Mongols would definitely have an upper hand here.

-Mongols take the Levant and Egypt.

Prevent Baibars from becoming Mamluk Sultan, and the Levant could fall. Egypt is harder due to the Sinai desert.

-Mongols stay united after Ogedei dies later, Mongols stay in Poland,Baltic states and possibly Hungary.

If they conquered further west, this is possible. However, the western border of the Golden Horde will definitely retract east as they lose control. So if the Mongols press their advantage the first time and conquer Hungary, Croatia and eastern Germany, then Poland, the Baltic, and Hungary could remain Mongol-controlled.

-Mongols conquer the Byzantine Empire.

It would have to be worth conquering. In that case, the Fourth Crusade has to be prevented.

-Mongols invade Italy.

Probably impossible.
 
Prevent the ascendancy of the Delhi Sultanate, and this could definitely happen.


Prevent Baibars from becoming Mamluk Sultan, and the Levant could fall. Egypt is harder due to the Sinai desert.
Do you really need to make those countries weaker and not make the Mongols more united or make them directly more successful?

Without the two unexpected storms, the Mongols would definitely have an upper hand here.
Not that hard.

If they conquered further west, this is possible. However, the western border of the Golden Horde will definitely retract east as they lose control. So if the Mongols press their advantage the first time and conquer Hungary, Croatia and eastern Germany, then Poland, the Baltic, and Hungary could remain Mongol-controlled.
I wonder how much long you can keep the Khaganate united politically at least.

It would have to be worth conquering. In that case, the Fourth Crusade has to be prevented.
Well wouldn´t it mean that the Byzantine(or Nicean) Empire is easy pick?

Probably impossible.
Is it? What kind of opposition would they realistically find?
 

Deleted member 97083

Do you really need to make those countries weaker and not make the Mongols more united or make them directly more successful?
They could just get lucky, but if you want to have a specific POD/reason for the Mongols to conquer India or Egypt, then you'd have to prevent the leaders that were able to stop the Mongol advance.

Well wouldn´t it mean that the Byzantine(or Nicean) Empire is easy pick?
Historically, the Mongols had a nominal alliance with the Byzantines because the Byzantines weren't a threat or wealthy enough to be worth conquering. However if the Fourth Crusade had not happened, the Byzantine Empire would still be rich, making it the prime target of the Mongols in Europe.

Is it? What kind of opposition would they realistically find?
Raiding the Italian countryside is possible if the Mongols take the Carpathian plains, but a full blown conquest doesn't seem like something the Mongols would want to do or logistically be able to accomplish with the resources they were willing to put in.

Also there were quite a lot of fortifications in Italy. That was true in Germany as well, but at least Germany is on the north side of the Alps.
 
They could just get lucky, but if you want to have a specific POD/reason for the Mongols to conquer India or Egypt, then you'd have to prevent the leaders that were able to stop the Mongol advance.


Historically, the Mongols had a nominal alliance with the Byzantines because the Byzantines weren't a threat or wealthy enough to be worth conquering. However if the Fourth Crusade had not happened, the Byzantine Empire would still be rich, making it the prime target of the Mongols in Europe.


Raiding the Italian countryside is possible if the Mongols take the Carpathian plains, but a full blown conquest doesn't seem like something the Mongols would want to do or logistically be able to accomplish with the resources they were willing to put in.

Also there were quite a lot of fortifications in Italy. That was true in Germany as well, but at least Germany is on the north side of the Alps.
I see.

But how did the Mongols evaluate a conquest? How did they know what was wealthy at what moment?


Ah, I wrote "invade" for that reason. For India it was a "take" but for Italy it was a "raid".

But was North Germany really that fortified? I mean the Ostsiedlung was just happening and the population is not that strong to begin with, at least to me it seem the Mongols can just raid through till the Rhine(not sure what the forest would do to them).
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Durable Mongol settlement in Hungarian Basin might be enough to allow rain to Italy and Germany. Magyars did raid those places until they become Christianized. In the long run, there will be little difference, population will grow again, walled city will held, and eventually Hungarian Basin will be Christianized again.
 
The best case scenario for a mongol wank might be the Mongols scinicizing, as is the best case scenario for any cultural group conquering China.
 
An actual conquest of Italy seems unlikely in the extreme; as already mentioned, Italy is covered in fortresses and walled cities by this time, and reducing the whole country would be a horrendous, decades-long slog through siege after siege. That said, I can definitely see a Mongol khan securely based in Hungary sweeping in, giving some city the Baghdad treatment, and on that basis extorting tribute and gaining the nominal submission from a number of communes and lords. It seems like a bit of a long shot, but not inconceivable on its face, especially since the HRE by this time has lost functional control over Italy and is mired in a succession crisis.

I've always wanted to write a (borderline-ASB) TL with Christian Khan based in Hungary deciding to take advantage of the 13th century Great Interregnum by claiming the title of Holy Roman Emperor for himself: "Dear Holy Father, did you hear about the Caliph of Baghdad? Yeah, that was a rough one, wasn't it? On a completely unrelated topic, I hear that the highest title in all Christendom is vacant, and that only you can grant it. Shall we have a chat?"
 
The best case scenario for a mongol wank might be the Mongols scinicizing, as is the best case scenario for any cultural group conquering China.
I don´t know how sinizing would help them conquer more land or even what will be "Mongol" about them if they become a Chinese dynasty like many others.
 
I don´t know how sinizing would help them conquer more land or even what will be "Mongol" about them if they become a Chinese dynasty like many others.
It would help them not lose their Empire in China to rebellion after only 90 years of rule. They could practice segregation and a ban of interracial marrying like the Qing so Mongols still consider themselves Mongols.
 
It would help them not lose their Empire in China to rebellion after only 90 years of rule. They could practice segregation and a ban of interracial marrying like the Qing so Mongols still consider themselves Mongols.
Frankly that´s not a Mongol wank if you have them become something else.
 
A Mongol invasion of India may work best if it works a bit round the houses.

If a larger force can be mustered for an invasion of Arabia, a successful invasion there creates a perfect launch point for a naval invasion. Combine that with an ally on the Indian mainland in the Deccan region? The Mongols can invade the Delhi Sultanate from the south and the north.
 
A Mongol invasion of India may work best if it works a bit round the houses.

If a larger force can be mustered for an invasion of Arabia, a successful invasion there creates a perfect launch point for a naval invasion. Combine that with an ally on the Indian mainland in the Deccan region? The Mongols can invade the Delhi Sultanate from the south and the north.
Can´t the Mongols invade Arabia to a point where Oman is seized? I can see Hedjaz being seized but not the rest.
 
-plausible. I suggest the dismantling of the Tughluq dynasty and other extremely powerful states. The states in this region surpassed the Kwarzmshahs in ultimate numbers and in logistics, they were not to be taken lightly.

-I have no knowledge of this.

-Unless an extreme catastrophe occurred, the Mongols will not take the Mamluk sultanate. For one, you have a Mongol army that has gotten extremely lucky in Iraq where it took Alamut only because of support from the Abbasids, otherwise they likely would've lost food and been drawn into the same trap that the Saljuqs were, and routed by the Hashashin. In the same manner, Musta'sim should've listened to his advisors and engaged the Mongols in Southern Iraq before they reached Basra, this would be forced a battle in the Batihah, the vast swamps of southern Iraq. The Mongols like the Saffarids, former Abbasids, etc, will be drawn in and slaughtered by the Abbasid infantry in such conditions, or be forced to retreat. The issue with that, is that, Hulagu believed he had to take Basra before Baghdad, thus his extreme fear of Iraq. Luckily for him, the Abbasid's answer was to wait until they got to Baghdad, try and hold and then when it got tough, offer money in tribute to escape to Egypt.

Therefore it was luck that gave the Mongols victory in Iraq. In Egypt they face Qutuz and Baibars, two of the most dangerous individuals in Islamic history. Further, they posses heavy cavalry of the best quality in the world at this time. At times, I think people forget, this Mamluk state, was the pinnacle of Middle Eastern etiquette and warrior code. This including the terrain and how the Mamluks used it, equals a stunning victory for Qutuz against an overconfident Mongol force.
 
This is a Mongol Empire with more of Europe and North India(borders are vague ofc):

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