AHC: MLK, Jr. survives, and successfully talks about slow erosion American middle class in 1970s?

And this is a tough one, for we as humans are geared up to see things in terms of fairness. For example — is the process fair in deciding who to hire for the good jobs? This is what we focus on.

We are much less attune to looking at, well, are there enough good and even medium jobs for the size of our population? This doesn’t immediately jump out at us near as much.

But, Mike King enjoyed studying and explaining things.

This is how he started with the writings Henry David Thoreau and Mahandas Gandhi and built his own version of principled nonviolence, which he put a lot of effort into as far as explaining his ideas to people from a wide variety of life paths.

Paint me a picture in which Martin Luther King, Jr. successfully bends the path regarding the erosion of middle-income jobs.
 
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First you would have to change his health in addition to the assassination. Doctors were surprised that his heart was in such poor condition, it’s 50-50 MLK even makes it to the 70’s.
 
. . . Doctors were surprised that his heart . . .
Please keep in mind that Martin was born on Jan. 15, 1929, so if he lives all the way till 1979, he’ll be only fifty.

Okay, point we’ll taken that the standard American diet of meat and potatoes (too much meat and starch) is terrible for cardio health. And if anything, traditional African-American food, soul food if you will, is even worse, I’m sorry, but it is. And people of all races can and do have strokes and/or heart attacks relatively young.

So, I will happily accept a fair amount of good luck in this regard.
 
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https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/doc...-the-congress-reporting-the-state-the-union-1

" . . . I must say to you that the state of the Union is not good: Millions of Americans are out of work. Recession and inflation are eroding the money of millions more. Prices are too high, and sales are too slow. . . "


youtube: President Gerald Ford's State of the Union Address - January 15, 1975 (Part 1)

This is phenomenal stuff. Almost unheard of that a president would say, state of the Union is not good. Very brave on Ford's part, maybe even too much out there. And yes, absolutely, economics were a huge issue through much of the 1970s.

* 1976, 1977, and 1978 were actually kind of okay as far as GDP growth.
 
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MLK’s economic message was about extreme poverty and the lower class, so not entirely following the middle class connection.

But a US with an actual social safety net would I guess prop up a middle class too.
 
MLK’s economic message was about extreme poverty and the lower class, so not entirely following the middle class connection. . .
I think you're right. I do generally take MLK as similar to Catholic priests talking about a preferential option for the poor. My answer's generally going to be that he makes efforts to broaden his base to both persons aspiring to the middle class and people already in the middle class.

And more good jobs has a lot more appeal, and I think is kind of the engine of the whole thing, rather than primarily focusing on just a bigger safety net.
 
Please keep in mind that Martin was born on Jan. 15, 1929, so if he lives all the way till 1979, he’ll be only fifty.

Okay, point we’ll taken that the standard American diet of meat and potatoes (too much meat and starch) is terrible for cardio health. And if anything, traditional African-American food, soul food if you will, is even worse, I’m sorry, but it is. And people of all races can and do have strokes and/or heart attacks relatively young.

So, I will happily accept a fair amount of good luck in this regard.

Man got his steps in, nobody could deny it.
 
Had MLK survived, I think his next big emphasis would be on education. In terms of a heart condition, he would have had state-of-the-art health care. Remember, his father lived into his eighties.
 
I think you're right. I do generally take MLK as similar to Catholic priests talking about a preferential option for the poor. My answer's generally going to be that he makes efforts to broaden his base to both persons aspiring to the middle class and people already in the middle class.

And more good jobs has a lot more appeal, and I think is kind of the engine of the whole thing, rather than primarily focusing on just a bigger safety net.

MLK surviving would've been one of the best things to happen to this country, even if he lived for only a few more years due to his health. To my knowledge he planned to focus on economic justice and poverty; I imagine he would've pushed Nixon and Ford to act on domestic issues. Possible butterflies of this might include Nixon introducing a negative income tax, or perhaps a successful passage of Nixoncare in 1974.

In general, MLK could've provided the moral leadership that America needed during the Nixon years and I imagine that race relations would be much better in the 1970's.
 
Please keep in mind that Martin was born on Jan. 15, 1929, so if he lives all the way till 1979, he’ll be only fifty.

Okay, point we’ll taken that the standard American diet of meat and potatoes (too much meat and starch) is terrible for cardio health. And if anything, traditional African-American food, soul food if you will, is even worse, I’m sorry, but it is. And people of all races can and do have strokes and/or heart attacks relatively young.

So, I will happily accept a fair amount of good luck in this regard.

It's quite possible that he has a cardiac episode in the early/mid 70s. Nothing truly debilitating, but bad enough that he spends some time in the hospital and it scares the hell out of his family and friends.

After he gets out of the hospital, his inner circle gives him a sort of "come to Jesus" talk about his health, and he starts eating better and exercising more. He slows down his schedule a tad, but remains an active speaker, maybe starts writing more.

In this scenario, I could see him living well into the 1990s and perhaps further beyond.
 
. . . To my knowledge he planned to focus on economic justice and poverty; . . .
When Martin went down to an assassin’s bullet, Ralph Abernathy took over as leader of SCLC (Southern Christian Leadership Conference).

And they went ahead with plans for the Poor People’s Campaign and Resurrection City the Summer of 1968, in which people came to the National Mall in Washington, DC, and set up a tent city. The problem was that the civil rights leaders were not effective mayors, city council members, police chiefs, etc.

Primarily because of young men glooming onto the event, there were rumors of crimes, and there were also actual assaults, robberies, and rapes. It was not a safe environment.

Most young men between 16 and 25 do not commit serious crimes, but enough do . . . so that when the demographics of this age group increases, so does the overall crime rate.

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ATL:

They should have made it a protest group . . . maybe for parents and grandparents? And very limited numbers of young adults could come during the day as guests.

This would have been much better.
 
When Martin went down to an assassin’s bullet, Ralph Abernathy took over as leader of SCLC (Southern Christian Leadership Conference).

And they went ahead with plans for the Poor People’s Campaign and Resurrection City the Summer of 1968, in which people came to the National Mall in Washington, DC, and set up a tent city. The problem was that the civil rights leaders were not effective mayors, city council members, police chiefs, etc.

Primarily because of young men glooming onto the event, there were rumors of crimes, and there were also actual assaults, robberies, and rapes. It was not a safe environment.

Most young men between 16 and 25 do not commit serious crimes, but enough do . . . so that when the demographics of this age group increases, so does the overall crime rate.

============

ATL:

They should have made it a protest group . . . maybe for parents and grandparents? And very limited numbers of young adults could come during the day as guests.

This would have been much better.

I guess another thing to take note of is that the country in general was taking a right-ward turn in 1968; even if there had been no war and LBJ had run again he would've been returned to office with a substantially reduced majority. After the rioting of the mid to late '60s, people were more interested in "law & order" than fighting poverty and racism. IMO there are parallels with Reconstruction 90 years earlier. Had MLK lived, he would've found the Nixon administration much more difficult and unresponsive than JFK and LBJ. I imagine he would've been a trenchant critic of Nixon's assimilation of segregationists into the GOP (although this had started with Goldwater). And MLK would no doubt be critical of the racially-biased nature of the War on Drugs, as well as Nixon's dishonesty on Vietnam.
 
And MLK would no doubt be critical of the racially-biased nature of the War on Drugs, as well as Nixon's dishonesty on Vietnam.
By 1968, the major civil rights legislation had been passed. The U.S. might have been taking a slight right turn with respect to civil rights (in terms of new laws) but was clearly veering left on the issues of war, the draft, dress codes, birth control and more. Dr. King would have seen the racism in the War on Drugs and his voice would have had more power than that of those who took his place.
 
MLK living would've been the worse thing possible for his legacy and the cause of civil rights. By the time of his death he was beginning to start attacks on the racism of the Northern populations, which was resulting in them taking a decidedly negative view of MLK; they had been content to accept Southerners were racist, but attacking their own prejudices was too much. Had MLK lived and continued to alienate the Northern Middle Classes as well as their working classes, such would've completely halted further support for racial progress legislation. Even worse, by the time of his death MLK seemed to be taking a more militant turn on issues, which would've provided an opening for Southerners and now disaffected Northern Whites to launch a crackdown.
 
I guess another thing to take note of is that the country in general was taking a right-ward turn in 1968; even if there had been no war and LBJ had run again he would've been returned to office with a substantially reduced majority. After the rioting of the mid to late '60s, people were more interested in "law & order" than fighting poverty and racism. . .
The 1968 election worries me, largely because Nixon used his "southern strategy" and it helped him, not hurt him.

Now, without Martin being murdered, there would not have been the riots in April. There may still have been the rioting at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in late August, and thus in fresh memory when people voted just two and a half months later. We here at AH can say that a good chunk of it was the police rioting, and it was. But be that as it may, a lot of people did not see it that way. I guess I'd rather people be merely authoritarian, rather than out-and-out racist.

So, yes, the fact that we can lay some of the blame for '68 to rioting makes me feel a little better.
 
. . . but was clearly veering left on the issues of war, the draft, dress codes, birth control and more. Dr. King would have seen the racism in the War on Drugs and his voice would have had more power than that of those who took his place.
What I remember from age 7 in 1970 is that my family got this really nice portable dishwasher. It had a woodblock top so that it was actually a functional part of the kitchen. And there when it was time to do the dishes, you'd roll it over next to the sink and hook it up.

I mean, I'm largely an economic determinist.

And I think the fact that people could visibly see themselves making progress was very good for the country. And when that began to stall out much less slowly erode, that was not a good thing, even if somewhat more than half of the people leaving the middle class were moving upward. Because obviously, from our political history since the mid-1970s, we are not very good at accepting and handling economic inequality.

I'm not at all sure Martin would have been against the War on Drugs. Remember from the early '90s, many (most?) of the Congressional Black Caucus were in favor of increased penalties for drug dealing.

What I like about the 1970s, more so from later reading was the emphasis on personal growth such as different techniques of meditation, including finding "flow" through running, the idea that "the personal is political," the idea that men's liberation meant that men could also been full-fledged human beings including being allowed to have emotions other than merely being angry, including that, yes, crying was okay for men, too, and a range of other very inspiring and positive ideas. Many of these ideas did not really come to fruition, but I guess that's normal and natural, too.
 
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MLK living would've been the worse thing possible for his legacy and the cause of civil rights. By the time of his death he was beginning to start attacks on the racism of the Northern populations, which was resulting in them taking a decidedly negative view of MLK; they had been content to accept Southerners were racist, but attacking their own prejudices was too much. . .
Such as the protests in Chicago in 1966. And you're entirely right. People are happy to criticize someone else, but don't like to look at their own faults.

What if I say, I don't give a damn about his legacy. If he's able to get more done, I'm fine with people looking at him in a far more mixed way. Another thing, Martin and Coretta may well have gotten divorced in the 1970s. Well, that's real life. People can draw the lesson that even big societal contributors can have flawed personal lives.

And most of all, I hope Martin would really hammer the idea that we can't merely spend our time debating on how to split up too small a pie. We need to be talking about ways to create more good jobs for all of us.
 
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And most of all, I hope Martin would really hammer the idea that we can't merely spend our time debating on how to split up too small a pie. We need to be talking about ways to create more good jobs for all of us
It is no coincidence that the civil rights movement came when the “pie” was expanding at the fastest rate ever. The chefs; the construction workers, machine operators, electricians, carpenters; could go on strike, demand more “filling,” and get it. The last of the Baby Boomers finished high school in 1982. An unseen demographic shift would follow. Just as the Baby Boom caused the school systems to establish “junior high” in the fifties, the surplus of classroom space in the late eighties brought about consolidation and redistribution so “middle schools” emerged. I mention schools because it is one industry that can not be mechanized away. And that’s why I think Dr. King’s thrust in the eighties and beyond, if he lived, would be education.
 
from his book Why We Can't Wait, Martin Luther King, Jr., (1964)

https://books.google.com/books?id=6...Bill of Rights for the Disadvantaged"&f=false

“It is a simple matter of justice that America, in dealing creatively with the task of raising the Negro from backwardness, should also be rescuing a large stratum of the forgotten white poor.”

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Louisville, Kentucky, March 5, 1964
https://www.courier-journal.com/sto...ination-segregation-louisville-mlk/464419002/

Not all of Martin's events are super well-remembered . . .

https://www.herkentucky.com/blog1/martin-luther-king

"I grew up, as a white boy in a small town in Central Kentucky and our family lived in severe poverty. ,I began to admire Dr. King when I learned about his efforts to help those in poverty and those who were victims of bigotry and discrimination With the generous and supportive help of many interested people in my hometown, I was able to attend Berea College in Berea, Ky.The events in Frankfort, Ky. on March 5, 1964, with Dr. King, happened during my time at Berea. As I recall we had 2-3 bus loads of students and faculty who traveled to Frankfort. The day was very dark and over-cast--but not cold. I was able to get close to the speakers platform. The highlight of that day---and one of the highlights of my life---happened after Dr. King completed his remarks and was preparing to leave the podium. I casually walked over to Dr. King. I introduced myself and asked if I could just shake hands with him. He smiled and seemed very pleased. I remember that his entire demeanor put me at ease. I am a short guy myself..but I was somewhat surprised that Dr. King was not a taller person. . . "
but often remembered very well by the persons who attended the events.

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And yes, Martin can be read as advocating exclusively or largely class-based affirmative action. To the extent we're going to be using affirmative action at all, rather than simply more good jobs and more educational opportunities for everyone.
 
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