AHC: Metis AND Lakota nations secede from Canada and the US respectively

I cant see the tin, but until about 1890 or so, non assimilated Indian tribes were considered sovereign nations by the U.S. . The Lakota could not "seceed" because they were not part of the United States. Also, the Metis are less of a nation and more of a culture group.
 

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
I cant see the tin, but until about 1890 or so, non assimilated Indian tribes were considered sovereign nations by the U.S. . The Lakota could not "seceed" because they were not part of the United States. Also, the Metis are less of a nation and more of a culture group.

Fair enough in regards to secession (this could be before Canadian Confederation afterall).

Lakota would need to have a recognised monopoly of coercion within a given territory and eventual mutual acceptance that everyone won't be running around violating eachothers borders with settlers or armed forces (I stress eventual; it doesn't have to start in this situation). Borders should become internationally recognised at some point.

A Metis nation could be a Red River Colony or Assinoboia (the thread title was ponderous enough without having to specify nation-state) that isn't part of Canada.

In both cases, they should have a reasonable length of time as nation-states.
 

mowque

Banned
The USA will never recognize a Native American state. We never did in OTL, despite numerous attempts by the natives. And what we don't recognize, we ignore.
 
The Lakota will get crushed. The Metis have a slightly better chance of succeeding, but their prospects aren't great either.
 
The métis are outnumbered by the full blood indians. But they could provide leadership for the others.

Getting military west from canada ranged from difficult, in the summer, to impossible, in the winter.

An organized local government could be recognized as a Protectorate or a PrincelyState before confederation.

After, its not going to happen.

If the native state is truely independent, the us will conquer it.
 

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
Well the 'challenge' part of this challenge was that it would take a crushing defeat by the British for the US to be forced to acknowledge that they couldn't do anything about Lakota independence, but any Britain strong enough to do that is not going to allow a state to pop up and block Canada's westward expansion.
 
The Lakota will get crushed. The Metis have a slightly better chance of succeeding, but their prospects aren't great either.

Lakota with out small population base yes. But what if they developed agriculture and ranching under Metis influence in the 1830s? Contact with Metis also leads to the development of a standing army.

Forty years later, and the Lakota and Indian allies / vassals are fielding the equivelant to brigades. The USA has just gone through the civil war and the public wont support a war that involves the use of conscripts.

The result, USA recognizes Lakota nation as some sort of autonomous dependent nation. Anglo settlers are kept out, Metis settlers are permitted. Eventually, however, the Lakota nation will need to join the USA as a state.
 

mowque

Banned
Forty years later, and the Lakota and Indian allies / vassals are fielding the equivelant to brigades. The USA has just gone through the civil war and the public wont support a war that involves the use of conscripts.

Even if they did have that kind of power, the USA will easily match it. And even if they do fight off the first USA waves, what will it do? Any treaty will be smashed by land hungry whites. Land claims, hunting rights and violence will constantly be breaking out between whites and natives until the government steps in (and, as usual, crushes the natives).

America saw that land as theirs and nothing was going to stop it.
 
Even if they did have that kind of power, the USA will easily match it. .
The USA would have the ability to match it, but after the exhausting civil war, they may not have the will to match it - at least not immediatly

America saw that land as theirs and nothing was going to stop it.
I agree, the best a northeren plains Indian / metis nation could hope for would be to enter the United States as a native american majority state.
 
Top