AHC: Medieval Democracy

Your challenge is to establish in Europe, before the year 1450, a state with democratic institutions in Europe where 10% at minimum of the population has the right to vote and alter their government. I was thinking Flanders, personally.
 
Your challenge is to establish in Europe, before the year 1450, a state with democratic institutions in Europe where 10% at minimum of the population has the right to vote and alter their government. I was thinking Flanders, personally.

I'm pretty sure there were a few trading republics in Italy that already satisfied this, but I could be wrong. I'm not very knowledgeable on the subject.
 
Also you should specify whether you want direct democracy or a republican government with democratically elected officials. If the latter then I'm pretty sure The Republic of Venice meets your 10% threshold.
 
Also you should specify whether you want direct democracy or a republican government with democratically elected officials. If the latter then I'm pretty sure The Republic of Venice meets your 10% threshold.

Really? I thought Venice and the others were much more oligarchical then that? And yeah, I meant the latter.
 
Medieval democracy existed OTL.

You had consulates in southern France where not only the men but the even in some places women voted. Also, in the north. Also everywhere you had municipal institutions.

I'm not going to make the list of such cities because we're going to pass the month. But maybe this could help.

Really? I thought Venice and the others were much more oligarchical then that?
It became really oligarchical mainly because of the merchant decline of the city but began when the city was powerful in the late MA. It was oligarchical during classical MA of course, but less than you seem to think.

I think we can date the turning point of the Republic of Venice in 1423 when the popular council was dissolved.
 
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Venice began to tighten up after 1400 or so; before then, there was a larger role for an assembly of the populace.

How were the Irish kingdoms governed?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Medieval democracy existed OTL.

You had consulates in southern France where not only the men but the even in some places women voted. Also, in the north. Also everywhere you had municipal institutions.

I'm not going to make the list of such cities because we're going to pass the month. But maybe this could help.


It became really oligarchical mainly because of the merchant decline of the city. It was oligarchical during MA of course, but less than you seem to think.

At the local and municipal level, most governments are democratic, or at least to the extent of the 10% that the OP is asking for.

So I think in order to not bog the thread down in that, we'll need to only look at the national level.
 
Your challenge is to establish in Europe, before the year 1450, a state with democratic institutions in Europe where 10% at minimum of the population has the right to vote and alter their government. I was thinking Flanders, personally.

I think your best bets is one of the Italian city states, that goes on a major Rome drive. By 10% do you mean 10% of the adult male population or do you mean 10% of the total population. Because with Medieval demographics 10% of the total population is 40% of the adult male population.

Also do you mean One Man, One Vote or is a system like the Roman Centuries Assembly or the Prussian Three Class system where despite everyone having a vote some were much more "equal" than others.

If you mean a biased system with unequal votes OTL can provide, including the Republic of Pisa during the 11th century.
 
So I think in order to not bog the thread down in that, we'll need to only look at the national level.

Considering how much the communes, the consulate/capitouls were states within the state (Capitoulat of Tolosa being considered as a "Republic"), I think it's fitting the OP quite well. Not talking of Italian cities-states.

Furthermore, "national" level for MA is probably an issue. You didn't had the concept of national, at least quite different from today.
 
Calling Venice a city state is something of a misnomer considering their extra-territorial holdings (Dalmatia, Negroponte, Crete) and their expansion on the Italian mainland, especially in the early 15th century

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Considering how much the communes, the consulate/capitouls were states within the state (Capitoulat of Tolosa being considered as a "Republic"), I think it's fitting the OP quite well. Not talking of Italian cities-states.

Furthermore, "national" level for MA is probably an issue. You didn't had the concept of national, at least quite different from today.

Both true; especially the latter.

But perhaps that's something we can work with. A confederation of otherwise autonomous communes with obligations of self-defense and reductions on economic barriers, etc. So basically super Switzerland :p
 
Calling Venice a city state is something of a misnomer considering their extra-territorial holdings (Dalmatia, Negroponte, Crete) and their expansion on the Italian mainland, especially in the early 15th century

A city-state isn't about its holdings. It's about how its organized and for Venice (Venitians or the most important families)., the rule of the state was made by the city. Not shared with Dalmatia, Negroponte, Crete.
 
It is not that hard, really. Gotland, Dithmarschen and Jämtland were independent peasant republics where all matters were settled at the Thing, including making and reversing laws. All free, non-peaceless (men could be declared peaceless for crimes, which meant anyone could harm them without reprecussions) had a vote at the Thing.

Gotland were nominally the subjects of the Swedish King, but did not pay taxes and had no royal troops stationed. There were no nobility or feudal levies either, only the local citizens (note that Gotland does not include Visby, which was a free Hansa city). The plague hit Gotland very hard, and when Valdemar of Denmark arrived with a modern mercenary army of heavy infantry and knights (of German and Frisian origin) in 1361, he crushed the two peasant levies raised to fight him (note that peasants were required by law to own arms and armour and train with them, so it was no rabble) and captured Gotland. Have Valdemar turn his attention eslewhere, the plague not hitting Gotland as hard or a lucky shot from one of the peasants take Valdemar out, and Gotland could very well survive as a peasant republic.

Jämtland was completely independent until Sverre of Norway conquered it in 1187 - it was a fluke - the Jämtlanders raised almost 1200 armed men to fight the Norwegian King and his Hird of 100 men, but during a night battle the Jämtlänningar started fighting each other by mistake in the darkness. Have Sverre lose the battle on the ice of Lake Storsjön and Jämtland could survive - after the plague, Norway would be too weak to take it by force, and the Danes and the Swedes are up to their ears fighting each other.

Dithmarschen was a de facto peasant republic in Schleswig-Holstein that lasted all the way until 1559, so it actually fulfills your challenge without any edits of history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dithmarschen#History
 
But perhaps that's something we can work with. A confederation of otherwise autonomous communes with obligations of self-defense and reductions on economic barriers, etc. So basically super Switzerland :p

Well, that could do. A commune of communes would be an interesting working title :D

Didn't the Lombard League was more or less close to that?

EDIT : I found back this document (in french) about cities in medieval occitans regions.
 
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A city-state isn't about its holdings. It's about how its organized and for Venice (Venitians or the most important families)., the rule of the state was made by the city. Not shared with Dalmatia, Negroponte, Crete.

Well, sort of but the cities which they incorporated (Padua etc) were allowed to keep their own governance subject only to the military and foreign policy requirements of Venice itself.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Well, sort of but the cities which they incorporated (Padua etc) were allowed to keep their own governance subject only to the military and foreign policy requirements of Venice itself.

Precisely. They were autonomous, but taking no part in the governance of Venice and its condado except for duties.
 
Didn't the Icelandic Thing also meet these requirements?

And I think the Swiss Cantons can be included in this as well, certainly the two half cantons of Unterwalden, and probably most of the others as well.
 
Well, there's Veliki Gospodin Novgorod as the largest Republic of Medieval Europe. Not sure what their percentage in electoral terms was.
 
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