AHC: MB-2 as a fighter for RAF & Allies

A trim looking fighter, Martin Baker MB-2 played no role in ww2 - a bit too late after Hurricane and Spitfire, powered with an engine of dubious qualities, with fixed U/C. So - let's make it a player, whether for RAF, FAA, and/or other Allied countries that might try to produce it under license, with a suitable engine where possible.
 
A trim looking fighter, Martin Baker MB-2 played no role in ww2 - a bit too late after Hurricane and Spitfire, powered with an engine of dubious qualities, with fixed U/C. So - let's make it a player, whether for RAF, FAA, and/or other Allied countries that might try to produce it under license, with a suitable engine where possible.

At least one of these will have to be fixed. There was an idea for a retractable U/C version in the works.

My idea would be to build another prototype, this time with a Perigrine Engine (lighter, slightly more powerful) or use this engine right from the off instead of the Dagger.
Reduced drag and weight and increased power would improve performance. Given the fact that it was built for Specification F5/34, it would probably see more service in the Dominion and Indian air forces than tha RAF itself. It might end up replacing the Gladiator in overseas service though.

Even if it doesn't enter service immediately, they could still push the design as a response to Specification F.19/40 as a competitor to the Miles M.20, the advantage being that the MB.2 doesn't cut directly into valuable Merlin production.

Now all it needs is a name.

Monsoon would be fitting seeing as the specification stipulated overseas service.
 
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The MB-2 handled like a dog and the MB-5 was as good as the best. Merlin or Griffon would be better, and some MB-3 features. MB-2 wasn't refined enough. The biggest obstacle was that MB wasn't on the manufacturers' list and the AM wouldn't order production of it at all by them, and unlikely for them. James Martin was too good at making other manufacturers' stuff better. Much like Folland.
 
So, outside chance, Retractable undercarriage and Peregrine Engine, put forward as a response to F.19/40 and a competitor to
the Miles M.20.
 
The handling issues were due to the rudder being too small, they've made several variatoins on that theme (after having no rudder proved to be a bad idea)?
Retractable U/C, as projected, looked like at least as draggy at the Gloster's competitor. Some plans can be seen here. I've tried to measure the wing thickness, ~17% at root is not that great, though it is thinner than at Hurricane, and most likely than what M.20 used. Should be easy to stick in the cannons in the wings, though.

So - a good sized rudder, some rear-facing exhausts, while adding tubes on the intakes to clear the exhausts. A VP prop is a no brainer.
Peregrine should be easier to install than Merlin, due to the weight. Obvoiusly, MC.200 was turned in the MC.202, so Merlin option gives not just appreciable performance boost while using widely produced engines, but also no headache re. supposed problems with reliability of Peregrine and Dagger. Cannons as/if possible.
 
The Merlins were needed for existing designs, but once the Griffon later generation Hawker fighters enter service, then yeah, a Merlin could work.
 
TBH, if you want to see the MB-2 in service I'd be looking at seeing 'em develop it two years earlier. On the face of it that doesn't look ridiculous to do (All the building blocks are there... the construction method was applied to the MB-1 civil aircraft back in 1934 and the Dagger had been kicking round, albeit with lower power, since 1934) and it puts it in an era where it's competitive despite the fixed landing gear. Perhaps an RR Kestral or Goshawk instead of the Napier Dagger?
 
The Dagger suffered from Napier failing to understand how to cool it. Some years ago I spoke with an ex De Havilland engine chap who told me that during the war they were asked to consult on the Dagger as they had successful air cooled engines. The conclusion, in simple terms as used to me, was that Napier tried to make the air cooling work by forcing more air in the front end but the actual key is reducing the air pressure at the exit. Then it will suck in more air. That made sense to me as I had learned with motor racing the a radiator will put up with the most appalling entry as long as it had a low pressure exit.Too late for Napier who were playing with the Sabre. DH saw no reason why the Dagger should not work in all climates with such improved cooling and could then make more power being cooling limited in it's production form.

For those unfamiliar with the Dagger it had 2 flat 12 vertically stacked banks side by side. It's rationale was to spin the engine twice as fast instead of make it twice as big. The idea was to save weight and improve thermal efficiency. It failed on both of these but could have been a perfectly adequate engine in the early Merlin/Taurus class.
 
The Dagger VIII was probably as good/bad as early Taurus, but not as good as early Merlin (III and the like). It will make less drag than Taurus, though, and we could actually use some exhaust thrust without problems. The altitude power was, for example, just 800 HP @ 4200 rpm at 15000 ft, so yes, already the Peregrine would've been an improvement for altitudes above 12000 ft.

My cunning plan is to have MB-2 re-engined with Merlin III, XII, and later with 45, while introducing the retractable U/C, 2 cannons. Should be faster than Hurricane and P-40, hence leveling the playing field as much as possible vs. Bf 109, MC.202, Zero, while kicking out the Bf 110, Oscar, Nate and MC.200. Hurricane is relegated to the mud moving job, so it does not receive Merlin XX, these engines going into Spitfire III that gets produced.
 
My cunning plan is to have MB-2 re-engined with Merlin III, XII, and later with 45, while introducing the retractable U/C, 2 cannons. Should be faster than Hurricane and P-40, hence leveling the playing field as much as possible vs. Bf 109, MC.202, Zero, while kicking out the Bf 110, Oscar, Nate and MC.200. Hurricane is relegated to the mud moving job, so it does not receive Merlin XX, these engines going into Spitfire III that gets produced.

Is this for later models or when they first enter production and service?
 
The Mark I will be as historical, ie. Dagger engine (maybe with improvements to the intake & exhausts), historical U/C, 8 Brownings, big rudder. As these enter production, make the steps to install the Merlin, better prop (perhaps retro-fit it to the Mk.I) and hopefully U/C, armor, s/s tanks -the Mk.II.
Mark III - certainly the better U/C, a better Merlin (XII, 45), cannons as they became available.
 
September 1939 looks so tempting for start of production of Dager-powered version. 1st flight for Merlinized type in January/February 1940, production start by May/June '40?
 

Archibald

Banned
With a little luck maybe MB could tease the French Air Force. By early 1939 the AdA in post-Munich panique mode was so desperate about fighters, they bought Koolhoven FK-58s even if Netherlands couldn't build them in numbers (!) Maybe in the same niche as the Caudron 714 ultra light fighter ?
 
It also didn't help that he was a perfectionist, perfect [being] the enemy of good.
But the knees of the bee at packing guns and large ammunition supplies into impossibly small spaces and his designs were laid out for ease of servicing. His Whirlwind armaments are an object lesson for any designer. .303's too weak to defeat Luftwaffe armour? No problem. 12 of them in less than a 3 foot circle will saw off any aluminium wing or fuselage or you can have drum fed or belt fed extra capacity x4 20mm cannon or a 40mm drum or belt fed S Gun or cameras. Or a pilot in a Derwent Whirlwind.
 
Looking at the specs of Dagger VIII, it is apparent that it's supercharger is geared for low level, with rated height of under 9000 ft for 4200 rpm and +5 psig boost (equals 1000 HP there). So the people at Napier probably can design and produce the 2-speed drive for supercharger, that would add another gearing for higher altitude. Hopefully the power at, say, 15000-16000 ft will thus be some 900 HP at 4200 rpm and +5 psig, instead of 800 as per OTL. Still lags behind Merlin, but gives a fighting chance in 1940.
 
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