AHC: Make WWII as bad as possible

Thothian

Banned
Instead of expelling Jews without regard to their usefulness, starting as soon as Hitler takes power, Jewish scientists become well-kept prisoners of the Gestapo.

While many of them would of course refuse to work and be prepared to endure torture, Himmler hits on an idea: torture not the scientists, but rather Jewish children, in front of them.

Imagine:

Himmler ( holding a little girl under the chin) " Come now, Professor Einstein. Surely you wish to end this poor waif's pain? Surely your pride means less to you than her suffering? No? Very well."
(Himmler gestures to one of the SS men with him) " Come here. 'Play' with her."

Einstein " In God's name , NO! I will do as you ask!" (sobs)

Himmler " Of course you will , Professor Einstein. Get to work." (chuckles)

Nazis have the A-bomb by the Battle of Britain. London/Birmingham/Edinburgh nuked. Shortly thereafter the same fate befalls Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kiev, Minsk, and Moscow.

USA begins a crash program to develop a bomb. Japan ( shocked by the power of the A-bomb and fearful that Hitler will eventually repudiate their alliance because they are not white) does the same and avoids attacking the USA.

With no ICBMs to carry nukes, the USA and Japan concentrate on deploying swarms of fighters to shoot down anything approaching their territory.

The cold war ITTL is 3 way: Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, and the world's remaining democracies led by the USA.
 

Mariam

Making it drag on?

The Axis fares better on some fronts, the Manhattan project fails or is delayed, resulting in an Allied invasion of Japan. Nothing specific, just enough changes to make the war longer.
 

MattII

If you can make Khalkhin Gol shorter and less bloody you might see the Japanese come in on the Soviets in mid-late 1941 (when it looks like they're beat). They wouldn't be able to do anything of course, but it would certainly hurt the L-L deliveries to the Soviets.

Oh, and the Akutan Zero is a write-off, and the Shoeburyness mine isn't miss-dropped.

And Unit 731 deploys something nasty, both in China and on the Americans (it still counts as war deaths if a 1918-type pandemic was deliberately released right?).
 
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Berkeley2017

Thothian said:
Instead of expelling Jews without regard to their usefulness, starting as soon as Hitler takes power, Jewish scientists become well-kept prisoners of the Gestapo.

While many of them would of course refuse to work and be prepared to endure torture, Himmler hits on an idea: torture not the scientists, but rather Jewish children, in front of them.

Imagine:

Himmler ( holding a little girl under the chin) " Come now, Professor Einstein. Surely you wish to end this poor waif's pain? Surely your pride means less to you than her suffering? No? Very well."
(Himmler gestures to one of the SS men with him) " Come here. 'Play' with her."

Einstein " In God's name , NO! I will do as you ask!" (sobs)

Himmler " Of course you will , Professor Einstein. Get to work." (chuckles)

Nazis have the A-bomb by the Battle of Britain. London/Birmingham/Edinburgh nuked. Shortly thereafter the same fate befalls Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kiev, Minsk, and Moscow.

USA begins a crash program to develop a bomb. Japan ( shocked by the power of the A-bomb and fearful that Hitler will eventually repudiate their alliance because they are not white) does the same and avoids attacking the USA.

With no ICBMs to carry nukes, the USA and Japan concentrate on deploying swarms of fighters to shoot down anything approaching their territory.

The cold war ITTL is 3 way: Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, and the world's remaining democracies led by the USA.
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Problem with that is that the Nazis fundamentally disbelieved much of nuclear physics because its "Jewish" and thus can't be real. That's how deeply rooted Nazi anti-Semitism was. You'd need a much less anti-Semitic group of people to even consider using Jewish scientists and if that's the case, they are completely unrecognizable from the Nazis and are most likely sane enough not to start the Holocaust or even WWII in the first place.
 

wtw

Chemical and biological weapons use on the major cities of Europe and Eastern Asia. Pandemics in the Americas, Australia and New Zealand.

Several nations that remain neutral join the axis openly, Spain, Turkey, Iran come to mind.

Several nations in Latin America join the axis powers as well.

Uprising of Boers in South Africa.

Japan not surrendering after the two A-bombs forcing an allied invasion of Japan.

The Western allies also declaring war on the USSR as well as the axis and vice versa.
 

King Augeas

Widespread use of chemical weapons from the Battle of Britain onwards would do the trick.

I'm slightly surprised that it wasn't considered much historically. London was in easy reach and the British ability to retaliate was quite limited, and it could easily be thought that the shock would be sufficient to break the British stubbornness. Maybe they were wary of the prospect of winning the battle of Britain, but then attempting landings on mustard-soaked beaches.

I know there's the old story about Hitler having being gassed, but he doesn't seem to have any compunctions against using gas domestically on people he didn't like, and nor have I heard any stories of German officers proposing the use of gas at that time.
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

What about Hitler being replaced ny Himmler after a botched assassination cum coup which leaves Hitler and Goering dead? Alternatively, Operation Pike goes ahead, creating an actual "Axis of Evil"?
 
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NiGHTS

Instead of making it worse in Europe, why not try Asia and the Pacific for once? Things could be certainly worse there, but nobody ever really thinks about it.
 

miketr

UK makes peace in 1940. Nazi Germany attack USSR 1941. Long drawn out war of attrition to the knife follows. Exact ending up in the air. Body can't has to be higher.

Michael
 

MattII

King Augeas said:
Widespread use of chemical weapons from the Battle of Britain onwards would do the trick.

I'm slightly surprised that it wasn't considered much historically. London was in easy reach and the British ability to retaliate was quite limited, and it could easily be thought that the shock would be sufficient to break the British stubbornness. Maybe they were wary of the prospect of winning the battle of Britain, but then attempting landings on mustard-soaked beaches.

I know there's the old story about Hitler having being gassed, but he doesn't seem to have any compunctions against using gas domestically on people he didn't like, and nor have I heard any stories of German officers proposing the use of gas at that time.
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The German army logistics capabilities mostly consisted of horses, and while gas-masks for the poor things were around, they had a hard time using them while working. Also, he was fearful of retaliation because he'd been told the British capability for gas (especially nerve gas) manufacturing was much higher than it actually was.

WalterWilliams said:
Instead of making it worse in Europe, why not try Asia and the Pacific for once? Things could be certainly worse there, but nobody ever really thinks about it.
Click to expand...
It's been mentioned several times in thread.
 
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