AHC: Make this map accurate (Spain based in Andalusia)

Deleted member 97083

With a POD no earlier than 751, come up with a scenario that could make this map historically accurate.

Basically, make Andalusia into a Christian kingdom stronger than the other kingdoms in Iberia, which actually claims the "Empire of all Spains" title, yet, has not actually united the peninsula.

Bonus points: make the northern kingdoms into Spain's "Andalusian March" against the Franks. An exact opposite Frankish March.

PCt1eZR.png
 

Galba Otho Vitelius

This map is an accurate depiction of the actual historical situation in the Iberian peninsula as of 1100.

At that point, the Almoravids had arrived but had not yet completed their conquest of the Taifa statelets. The last taifa emirate, Zaragoza, held out until 1110 so as of 1100 would still be in existence.

The reason the map looks weird is the mis-translation of the names of the two Muslim states (one Berber, one Arab). The "Empire of all Spains/ Crown of Andulasia" is the Almoravid quasi-Caliphate. The "Duchy of Zaragoza" is the taifa emirate of Zaragoza. The mistranslation gives the impression these were Christian states.
 

Deleted member 97083

Galba Otho Vitelius said:
This map is an accurate depiction of the actual historical situation in the Iberian peninsula as of 1100.

At that point, the Almoravids had arrived but had not yet completed their conquest of the Taifa statelets. The last taifa emirate, Zaragoza, held out until 1110 so as of 1100 would still be in existence.

The reason the map looks weird is the mis-translation of the names of the two Muslim states (one Berber, one Arab). The "Empire of all Spains/ Crown of Andulasia" is the Almoravid quasi-Caliphate. The "Duchy of Zaragoza" is the taifa emirate of Zaragoza. The mistranslation gives the impression these were Christian states.
Click to expand...
I just made that map before making the post. It's close to the Almoravid borders, but doesn't reflect any specific historical reality because by the time Zaragoza, Lisbon, and Mallorca were Christian, Castille had pushed south to Toledo and beyond.

And of course "Empire of All Spains" was an implicitly Catholic title.

The concept I am wondering about is basically, how could the Kingdom of Spain, or a lasting Empire of all Spains, or Crown of Andalusia, form without significantly changing the mid-Reconquista political status quo?

Furthermore, could Spain have formed through the conquest of al-Andalus by an El Cid like figure, or by crusaders, or is it something that would have to have formed through a marriage alliance?
 

Galba Otho Vitelius

Sorry, I just assumed that this was just a bad map in a history textbook. People have posted examples of those here.

So have an Almoravid ruler convert to Christianity.
 
LSCatilina

LSCatilina

Achaemenid Rome said:
Basically, make Andalusia into a Christian kingdom stronger than the other kingdoms in Iberia, which actually claims the "Empire of all Spains" title, yet, has not actually united the peninsula.
Click to expand...
I don't see how to make it work : a basic yet overwelming part of identity of an Arabo-Andalusian hegemonic power (emirate/caliphate/sultanate) was it had to be based on the fight and supremacy over Christians kingdoms and periphery. It could be mostly theoritical and limited to annual raids or to subservient treatment of inner Christians, but it was still there (and remained to be so until 1492, at a point where Nasrid Grenada was more a Arabo-Maghribian state than Arabo-Andalusian), and justified the overlordship of any dynasty (Umayyad, Alid, Almoravid, Almohad) over the quarelling taifas.

You'd need so much a complete upheaval for what matters not just Arabo-Andalusian political and cultural concepts, but Arabo-Islamic concepts that at best, a PoD in the formative years of Islam would be necessary.

Not that you couldn't have local conservion (or rather, dynastic reconversions) to Christianity, but that's essentially a muladi thing, such as with Ibn Hafsun in opposition with Umayyads (admittedlt, he's the most extreme exemple). The localized, and ethnicized feature of this Christianisation was percieved as existentially threatening by the lot of Arab or more arabized muladi elite : while we could see Christian taifa appearing with an early fall of Umayyads in the Xth, it would probably go down at middle term as either reconquered by whoever get the leadership in the region, or absorbated by a regional powers (probably Fatimid if Islamic).
But the whole of Andalusia? I really don't think it's doable.
 

Kurt_Steiner

The south of Spain becomes conquered by Byzantium. Somehow it becomes an independent kingdom that grows in such a way that it ends not only expanding and reducing the Visigoth kingdom to a petty collection of realms and duchies but also crushes the Muslim intervention/invasion.
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
Second crusade doesn't go to Holy Land at all but concentrates all its resources on Spain instead. French crusaders fall out with everyone else after the conquest
 
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