BlairWitch749
Banned
Again, the Germans didn't run into significant resistance in this sector for some time after they destroyed Kuznetsov's Front. What saved Leningrad in this sense was *not* that Popov and company were able to put up a large-scale, major, serious resistance south of the city where they had no major fortifications and knew this, it was that the Nazis started running into logistics issues the closer they got to the city, issues that neither side found real solutions for.
General von Manstein was nearly encircled in the Stoltsy attack that almost cut his career short before it fairly got started, and his army only made it out of that because someone else bailed him out of it. The Soviets likewise did not have sufficient power to secure the encirclement against that. What he's describing is the kind of hell for leather "Panzers uber alles" approach that leads to more Stoltsys. Modern war does not rely on armor alone, infantry alone, artillery alone, or air power alone, it relies on them all in tandem. And in a densely tangled terrain more troops = bigger problem, not better solution.
Leningrad was not takeable not because of Soviet skill, but because the terrain forced both the Germans and Soviets to rely on small-unit actions. This favored the Germans, but endless small unit fights are never going to shatter Soviet strength in an attrition process where eventually the Germans run out of Germans but the Soviets still have Soviets. There was also no easy solution for the USSR to the particular problems of Leningrad when we factor in the sheer 3:1 disparity Army Group North had over Kuznetsov and how the USSR's defense plan did not expect to fight south of the city against Germans, only north of it against Finns. The Germans *had* an overwhelming numerical advantage, more overwhelming numbers is not the answer.
they didn't run into significant resistance because Zhukov ordered the troops to withdraw closer to the city where the terrain favored the defense which drew the germans to the limit of their supply zone whilst still having a seirous battle to fight
my proposed scenario pre-empts that by encircling the troops BEFORE Zhukov can order them to be withdrawn, so the germans are attacking only 250 miles from their jump off point (within their supply zone abilities) not 450 (breaking point) and not only that they are attacking troops who have been rushed into a position of flat ground with limited heavy weapons
losing those 350k men in the context of everything else going on at the front likely prevents the russians from being able to reform a defense either just south of the city or even the city itself before the panzers reach it off the march which is what happened to orel during typhoon