AHC: make the roman republic a democracy

for its entire lifetime, the republic was highly oligarchic in nature. your goal is to make them fully, plausibly democratic - either in the Athenian vein or in a way unique to them. when could this be accomplished? what will be the result of a fully democratic Rome? could it be more prosperous or successful than OTL?
 
the definition of a democracy in antiquity at least - every citizen is allowed to vote and has basically equal political power in the system regardless of wealth or class.

What's the definition of citizen in this case? Adult men who are not slaves? Or Adult male property-owners? At any rate, the patricians would still dominate the electoral process due to their wealth.

Are there representatives from the hinterland as well as the capital? Do the towns and cities subject to Rome's rule have representation? Rome was a city state first and foremost, don't forget.

Is there a secret ballot, or is voting done in public (and thus subject to outside pressure)?

The definition of democracy in antiquity varies based on where you were, and the timeframe in question.
 
Romans were very picky who can be citizen and who not. And Athenian democracy would be pretty difficult in practise in that time anyway. I think that Rome was as democratic as it was possible. You would need very early POD that you can make that more democratic.
 
Several comments. First I would say unless you have a very early POD it is not happening. By the time of the middle republic there was an intense suspicion of democracy. The comment that romans were picky about giving citizenship is simply incorrect (at least in the context of ancient world). In Athens for example you could only be a citizen if both your father and mother were citizens. Effectively there was no process for “naturalization”. A unique aspect of Rome was that people could become citizens. For example freed slaves became citizens as did their children. However this openness to citizenship went hand in hand with oligarchy. Voting was done by “tribe” and new citizens were concentrated in a few tribes so their votes were diluted. When clodius proposed to change this he was murded by Milo probably on that Pompey’s orders
 
The Persians beat the Greeks and they flee to Italy were they introduce crazy ideas like free and fair elections were power is not bought (I wonder if that will catch on). At some point, if Rome still rises we may see a proper Greco Roman state (in this case literal) that is a functioning democracy which for some dreams of retaking a homeland, liberating a people, and bringing death to tyrants (Sic Semper Tyrannus)!
 
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The Persians beat the Greeks and they flee to Italy were they introduce crazy ideas like free and fair elections (I wonder If that will catch on). At some point, if Rome still rises we may see a proper Greco Roman state (in this case literal) that is a functioning democracy which for some dreams of retaking a homeland, liberating a people, and bringing death to tyrants (Sic Semper Tyrannus)!
I, uh...I don’t think “democracy” meant the same thing to the ancient Greeks as it means to modern Americans.
 
I, uh...I don’t think “democracy” meant the same thing to the ancient Greeks as it means to modern Americans.
I think brutus says it when he helped kill caesar but I think some are saying now it was a dramatic invention of Shakespeare that may not have happened but it sounds great.
 
for its entire lifetime, the republic was highly oligarchic in nature. your goal is to make them fully, plausibly democratic - either in the Athenian vein or in a way unique to them. when could this be accomplished? what will be the result of a fully democratic Rome? could it be more prosperous or successful than OTL?

Actually, it's quite likely that the early Republic was actually pretty democratic. It's been a while since I studied this period, so I can't remember all the arguments pro and contra, but one piece of evidence I do remember is that the Senate's power was almost entirely built on its prestige, rather than on actual legal powers. So, it's likely that the popular assemblies were the main governing organs during the early Republic, and ended up being supplanted over the fourth century or so because Rome's increasing power required a more deliberative and permanent body to direct (especially foreign) policy.

Whilst Rome wasn't quite as democratic as, say, Athens -- even the popular assemblies did their voting in tribes, which favoured the rich and old -- it was nevertheless democratic during the first couple of centuries after the monarchy. If you want it to stay democratic, or become even more so, I'd say you'd probably need to keep it a city-state rather than a proper empire. Getting together the citizen body and saying "Hey, should we invade these guys?" works OK when the potential enemies are a threatening nearby tribe, but not nearly so well when they're a bit Hellenistic kingdom thousands of miles away, and the decision over whether or not to fight them requires a consideration of the logistical, financial, diplomatic, etc., issues likely to arise.
 
The Persians beat the Greeks and they flee to Italy were they introduce crazy ideas like democracy (I wonder If that will catch on). At some point, if Rome still rises we may see a proper Greco Roman state (in this case literal) that is a functioning democracy which for some dreams of retaking a homeland, liberating a people, and bringing death to tyrants (Sic Semper Tyrannus)!
There were numerous Greek cities in the South of Italy. You might imagine that during the conflict of the orders certain politicians start trying to out-radical eachother in order to gain support (as happened in Athens) but I am skeptical that Rome would become Rome in this case.
 
the definition of a democracy in antiquity at least - every citizen is allowed to vote and has basically equal political power in the system regardless of wealth or class.
OTOH what constitutes a citizen was more often than not based on wealth or class or gender or service or something so saying that all citizens are equal is a bit misleading there a plenty of people who don't qualify as citizens in antiquity.
 
Make them a more meritocratic society. It didn't matter who you were and where you came froma s much as what you did.

pair taht with state service (mostly military of course) for citizenship (and thus the legal right to vote) and allow people to vote on their local leaders, these local leaders then vote the others up in the chain of command. Rinse and repeat.
 
for its entire lifetime, the republic was highly oligarchic in nature. your goal is to make them fully, plausibly democratic - either in the Athenian vein or in a way unique to them. when could this be accomplished? what will be the result of a fully democratic Rome? could it be more prosperous or successful than OTL?
What is with the Grachi-Reforms ?
 
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