AHC: Make the Ottoman Empire lose all of its European territories following the Russo-Turkish War

Thomas1195

Banned
Title says it all.

The challenge is to make Ottoman Empire lose all of its European regions as a result of the Russo-Turkish war 1877-1878. The Balkan countries would either gain full independence or fall into Russia (or Austria)'s sphere of influence. In other words, the Turks must be driven out of Europe completely.
 
Should be simple enough. Disraeli does not threaten to intervene in the war and there is no deployment to Malta following the Turkish defeats at Plevna and Phillippopolis There is no Royal Navy deployment to Constantinople. Russia continues to march on the city which the Turks either abandon or is stormed by the Russians. After this the Tsar dictates his own terms

As maters stood IOTL this is something that Russia came very close to achieving in January 1878 and it was arguably only the threat of British intervention, quite possibly with Austrian military support that prevented this scenario from becoming a reality
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Should be simple enough. Disraeli does not threaten to intervene in the war and there is no deployment to Malta following the Turkish defeats at Plevna and Phillippopolis There is no Royal Navy deployment to Constantinople. Russia continues to march on the city which the Turks either abandon or is stormed by the Russians. After this the Tsar dictates his own terms
Maybe have Gladstone winning 1874 election. Gladstone was very anti-Turkish and despised the Turks for the atrocities in Bulgaria.

A realpolitik proponent like Disraeli would never look away.
 
Maybe have Gladstone winning 1874 election. Gladstone was very anti-Turkish and despised the Turks for the atrocities in Bulgaria.

A realpolitik proponent like Disraeli would never look away.
Could be tricky for Gladstone to win in 1874, Did he not go to the polls when he did because he believed he would do worse the longer he waited. That said, Gladstone#s pamphlet against war apparently became a best seller Perhaps he might have been more successful in containing the tide of jngoism and mobilizing an effective anti war movement. Perhaps an Austria less willing to oppose Russia it was only a decade after the defeat of 1866.

I still maintain that a less effective international response to what was approaching a Russian fait accompli in January 1878
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Could be tricky for Gladstone to win in 1874, Did he not go to the polls when he did because he believed he would do worse the longer he waited. That said, Gladstone#s pamphlet against war apparently became a best seller Perhaps he might have been more successful in containing the tide of jngoism and mobilizing an effective anti war movement. Perhaps an Austria less willing to oppose Russia it was only a decade after the defeat of 1866.

I still maintain that a less effective international response to what was approaching a Russian fait accompli in January 1878
Maybe Gladstone encouraged Greece join the war to take several regions including Gallipoli, which could be a substitute for controlling the straight.
 
Maybe Gladstone encouraged Greece join the war to take several regions including Gallipoli, which could be a substitute for controlling the straight.

I was actually thinking about Gladstone's electoral chances in 1874 which do not seem to have been very good. Which is why I think it unlikely that he would have any chance of being in power to do anything in 1877 and 1878. Which is why we should accept Disraeli was in power as per OTL. As indicated earlier there are things we can still change on the international stage to achieve a situation which dd come close to reality IOTL.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
I was actually thinking about Gladstone's electoral chances in 1874 which do not seem to have been very good. Which is why I think it unlikely that he would have any chance of being in power to do anything in 1877 and 1878. Which is why we should accept Disraeli was in power as per OTL. As indicated earlier there are things we can still change on the international stage to achieve a situation which dd come close to reality IOTL.
Maybe a more thorough Education Act in 1870 that makes education both compulsory and free, like Chamberlain wanted.
 
Maybe a more thorough Education Act in 1870 that makes education both compulsory and free, like Chamberlain wanted.

Well we could debate Gladstones re-election chances in 1874 - but I think that might be topic for another thread :) It is getting a long way from the Russo Turkish War. Changes to the international diplomatic scene would have a better chance of achieving the small diplomatic shift needed for Russia to achieve territorial gains of the magnitude you indicated originally

Bear in mind that, IOTL Russia, militarily, had come very close to achieving these aims and was marching on Constantinople when the war ended. What stopped the scenario from unfolding as you would require was the threat of international intervention by Britain and Austria
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
Title says it all.

The challenge is to make Ottoman Empire lose all of its European regions as a result of the Russo-Turkish war 1877-1878. The Balkan countries would either gain full independence or fall into Russia (or Austria)'s sphere of influence. In other words, the Turks must be driven out of Europe completely.

Austria-Hungary decides to join the war as a fighting ally of the Russians, to get is own sphere of influence down to Salonika. With Austria-Hungary aiding and abetting the Russian war effort, the Ottomans will have a hard time making Plevna last as long, and Russia can credibly ignore British threats/complaints.
 
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