AHC: Make The Moon The 51st US State

Rishi · Jan 20, 2015

Is it possible for the Moon to be the 51st US state? I think it is. Firstly, make sure that there is no Outer Space Treaty. This would make the colonisation of bodies in outer space (and, indeed, the colonisation of outer space itself) fair game for all countries. Then have the United States fulfill Project Horizon by building a military base inside a glass dome on the Moon. The United States could justify building a military base on the Moon by claiming that it's trying to get an edge against the Soviet Union's expansionistic ambitions on Earth. Then the United States would re-design its flag so that it looks exactly the same as it currently does in this timeline with the exception being that in the box containing the fifty stars is a white circle to the left of the fifty stars that is the same height as all of the rows of the fifty stars. This white circle represents the Full Moon. The United States intentionally chose not to use a Half Moon symbol next to the fifty stars due to its similarity to the symbol of Islam. If the United States can't make the Moon the 51st US state by itself, then it could make the Moon the 51st US state by proxy by making the Moon a UN-administered territory.

Tom Colton · Jan 20, 2015

Why would the United States ever put in effort into making the Moon a state, necessitating its own representatives, senators, governor and electoral votes? The closest it'd ever become to being part of the USA would be as a "over-space" territory.

Simreeve · Jan 20, 2015

In the absence of any new & very good method for getting people to the moon, you'd need to drop the required population threshold for statehood considerably...

frlmerrin · Jan 20, 2015

You must remember that the Maldives have already asserted ownership of the moon and is not a signatory of the OST. So the USA cannot claim it without de facto declaring war on the Maldives for which it would be universally condemned.

Hashoosh · Jan 20, 2015

frlmerrin said:
You must remember that the Maldives have already asserted ownership of the moon and is not a signatory of the OST. So the USA cannot claim it without de facto declaring war on the Maldives for which it would be universally condemned.

Wait actually??

Dathi THorfinnsson · Jan 20, 2015

Rishi said:
Is it possible for the Moon to be the 51st US state? I think it is. Firstly, make sure that there is no Outer Space Treaty. This would make the colonisation of bodies in outer space (and, indeed, the colonisation of outer space itself) fair game for all countries. Then have the United States fulfill Project Horizon by building a military base inside a glass dome on the Moon. The United States could justify building a military base on the Moon by claiming that it's trying to get an edge against the Soviet Union's expansionistic ambitions on Earth. Then the United States would re-design its flag so that it looks exactly the same as it currently does in this timeline with the exception being that in the box containing the fifty stars is a white circle to the left of the fifty stars that is the same height as all of the rows of the fifty stars. This white circle represents the Full Moon. The United States intentionally chose not to use a Half Moon symbol next to the fifty stars due to its similarity to the symbol of Islam. If the United States can't make the Moon the 51st US state by itself, then it could make the Moon the 51st US state by proxy by making the Moon a UN-administered territory.

Nope. Not in any plausible TL with a PoD after WWII, say.

1) you don't make states out of a single military base. Or at least you don't unless you are a wacko (semi)dictatorship worried only about PR.

2) getting the 10s of thousands of people to the Moon that would be required for statehood would be impossible with our tech level, short of about 50% of the US GDP being devoted to the Space Program. How likely is THAT?
2a) what are all those people going to do? sit around and collect welfare cheques? OK, a good many of those people are going to be building/repairing/maintaining the infrastructure needed for that many people, and, especially if you have people raising families there, that might be the vast majority of the available workers. The cost of maintaining that 'colony' would be HUGE.
2b) why would all those people want to go? 100s of volunteers? Easy. 1000s? sure, especially if they're single men. 10s of thousands, especially when this includes women and kids, and the incentives to get women to take their children into what would be a pretty darn dangerous environment would have to be huge. Like police rounding up the occupants of ghettos and 'transporting' them. (Of course, if the colonists were mostly ghetto dwellers, they won't have the training or skills to RUN such a colony.)

3) You can be sure that if the US puts up 10s of thousands, the Soviets will try to put up thousands - and probably declare the Lunar Oblast/SSR before the US declares a state.

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Of course, if this were Future History, and you were talking about the US settlements on the Moon in, say 2150, becoming a state, that would be different. Of course, the Russians and the Chinese (for instance) would have their own equivalents, so no one would have 'the moon' as a territory/state.

To rephrase, even then, the US State would be ON the Moon, not the WHOLE Moon.

zoomar · Jan 21, 2015

Are you serious? People. Not enough people and not probably ever. A base with even 10,000 people isn't enough. Claim it as an uninhabited colony, or territory, maybe. But not a state.

Michel Van · Jan 21, 2015

Dathi THorfinnsson said:
Nope. Not in any plausible TL with a PoD after WWII, say.

1) you don't make states out of a single military base. Or at least you don't unless you are a wacko (semi)dictatorship worried only about PR.

2) getting the 10s of thousands of people to the Moon that would be required for statehood would be impossible with our tech level, short of about 50% of the US GDP being devoted to the Space Program. How likely is THAT?
2a) what are all those people going to do? sit around and collect welfare cheques? OK, a good many of those people are going to be building/repairing/maintaining the infrastructure needed for that many people, and, especially if you have people raising families there, that might be the vast majority of the available workers. The cost of maintaining that 'colony' would be HUGE.
2b) why would all those people want to go? 100s of volunteers? Easy. 1000s? sure, especially if they're single men. 10s of thousands, especially when this includes women and kids, and the incentives to get women to take their children into what would be a pretty darn dangerous environment would have to be huge. Like police rounding up the occupants of ghettos and 'transporting' them. (Of course, if the colonists were mostly ghetto dwellers, they won't have the training or skills to RUN such a colony.)

3) You can be sure that if the US puts up 10s of thousands, the Soviets will try to put up thousands - and probably declare the Lunar Oblast/SSR before the US declares a state.

----
Of course, if this were Future History, and you were talking about the US settlements on the Moon in, say 2150, becoming a state, that would be different. Of course, the Russians and the Chinese (for instance) would have their own equivalents, so no one would have 'the moon' as a territory/state.

To rephrase, even then, the US State would be ON the Moon, not the WHOLE Moon.

Even the Integrated Program Plan of 1968 give maximum of 48 men for a lunar Base in 1990s

why would all those people want to go? working !
there this MacGuffinite:
either in Mining the moon surface for Rare Earth Elements, Titan, Aluminum, glass, Helium 3 even Water or oxygen
other way is to produce materials under Lunar gravity impossible on Earth
Tax heaven
Prolonged Lifespan under lunar gravity
or military stuff like Radar monitoring station, ICBM complex and that need maintenance crew personal

Save haven for Americans in case Nuclear War destroy Earth surface so USA can start all over again if planet has recover from war.
better know as "Don't keep all your eggs in one basket" theory

more on those topic in detail
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/macguffinite.php

Major Smith · Jan 21, 2015

Elect Newt Gingrich

Hashoosh · Jan 21, 2015

That still leaves out the problem of how you're going to get those people and resources (not to mention supplies to sustain a colony that is likely never going to become entirely self-reliant). It's completely implausible in our history, and serious discussion of this topic needs to be in future history or ASB I guess.

CELTICEMPIRE · Jan 21, 2015

Major Smith said:
Elect Newt Gingrich

In a Moon State I could see a city, county, or high school named after Gingrich.

Gnaskar · Jan 22, 2015

First: You need a better Russian Space Program. I'm conflicted as to whether it would be better if the Russians got to the Moon first, or "just" late 1969. That way, the space race doesn't quite end like it did in OTL. By the mid 70's both the Russians and the Americans making noises about a lunar base, and the post Apollo Saturn V upgrades are coming online. The upgrades make it cheaper, but also add options for solid boosters and an NTR upper stage to push the max payload up past 200 metric tons.

With the US public (and Congress) terrified of the "Red Moon" Scenario, and with Gerard O'Neill and Robert A. Heinlein's vision of lunar mass driver WMDs fueling fears, it wouldn't be too hard to imagine the US claiming the Moon their territory.

A joint military/science base is built up in the late 70's early 80's, with a crew in the mid dozens. The military objective of the base is to fire missiles at any Russian spacecraft headed at the Moon. By now, the bloated Saturn V project is, like OTL Shuttle, feeding too much Congressional pork to kill, and by extension the Moon base it serves has to continue the same rate of expansion. So the weakening and eventual collapse of the Soviet Union doesn't ruin things.

RPW@Cy · Jan 22, 2015

Carve out a chunk of Florida around Cape Canaveral as a seperate territory dedicated to space research, name it "The Moon" in honour of the Apollo programme and grant it statehood.

Seriously, something like this is the only way you're going to do it without ASBs.

overoceans · Jan 22, 2015

One can only only imagine the impact a Lunar state would have on global political psychology, especially as it relates to attitudes toward the USA.

Imagine an anti-American protest taking place at night, somewhere with a clear view of the sky, with speaker after speaker delivering a string of invective against Uncle Sam, while all the while actual American territory looms above them in the sky.

Tom Colton · Jan 22, 2015

overoceans said:
One can only only imagine the impact a Lunar state would have on global political psychology, especially as it relates to attitudes toward the USA.

Imagine an anti-American protest taking place at night, somewhere with a clear view of the sky, with speaker after speaker delivering a string of invective against Uncle Sam, while all the while actual American territory looms above them in the sky.

"Come the eclipse, our territory shall block out the sun!"

"Then we will fight in the shade."

Torqumada · Jan 22, 2015

There is a 60's era Sci-fi movie that has the President of the United States declaring that a new satellite the US has put into orbit is now it's own country and then the movie jumps forward 10 or so years to see how it has grown. I don't remember the name of the movie or the rest of it's premise.

Edit: Earth II from 1971.

Torqumada

zoomar · Jan 22, 2015

Although the concept of the Moon as a US State is completely ASB, the idea of an alternate cold war and space race in which the United States' space program is run by the Air Force, the US claims the moon as American territory in 1969, and proceeds to follow up the Apollo landings with permanent stations aimed at both scientific research and military advantage over the USSR... is not.

Dathi THorfinnsson · Jan 22, 2015

ASB, but ...

First probe to see the farside (Luna 3?), discovers the remains of a massive Alien base (abandoned). The US and USSR drop military spending massively, and put most of that money into space research. Clearly 3 men for a few days isn't going to cut the mustard for this, so massive LEO infrastructure is built with fuel farms, and tugs going back and forth. The USSR has a massive head start, as they classified the Luna images, so only they know for a while what's there. OTOH, their rockets are limited to Lox/kerosene or hypergolics, while the US, once they get going, have LH2/Lox, which is hugely better. By 1969, both bloks have bases on Farside investigating different parts of the alien base. While the tech is massively advanced over us, there are things that are understandable, and neither side dares lets the other side make discoveries without them.

Since the existing rocket infrastructure is vastly inadequate, massive amounts of money are poured into big dumb boosters, reusable shuttles, etc.

By the '70s, each side has a 'cheap' method to orbit, and there's infrastructure in LEO and Lunar orbit. Stations use tethers to launch and retrieve tugs/shuttles, which drops the delta-v required.

Each side by '75 has a dozen men permanently in their base. By '80, there's 100 people on the moon, there are hydroponic gardens to grow food locally and reduce the logistics needed, and oxygen (and metal) is mined from the regolith.

With oxygen and food no longer taking up the bulk of the re-supply, the stream of instruments and people increases.

'82 the first moon baby is born (not intentional, but when the mother realized she was pregnant, she hid the fact until it was too late to take her back to Earth).

By '85, massive regular flights are going to LEO, and antipodal commercial flights are also a regular thing (based on the earth-LEO shuttles). The first significant results from the Alien base are starting to arrive, and the importance of the base is inarguable.

The bases are now big enough that many of the residents are scientists and techs and maintenance people, and farmers/hydroponicists, with 'astronauts/cosmonauts' being a distinct minority. Population 1000.

By '90, the population is pushing 10,000 with Western Europe and Japan having their own sub-bases connected to the US one, and a small Chinese attached to the USSR one. Also, base has expanded, and is now split into multiple parts - residences, farms, research labs, military base, etc., etc. And an increasing civilian and purely scientific effort (on the US side) has led to the creation of Goddard University.

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Hmmm... OK, no this isn't going to work, is it? Because it might lead to an independent nation, but not a US state....

Oh well