AHC: Make the Bronze Age Collapse even worse

[Whiteshore]

The Bronze Age Collapse was arguably the greatest disaster ever to strike civilization, worse than the fall of the Western Roman Empire, as many of the civilizations of the Bronze Age were destroyed (like the Hittites and the Mycanaeans) or diminished (like Egypt and Assyria), but could it have been even worse? If so, how could it have been worse? Could civilization have been reduced to a tribal and pre-literate state? How long would it take for civilization to recover from such a blow?

 

[Sperglord]

Can civilization recover from such a blow?

Life, uh, finds a way.

 

[Whiteshore]

Life, uh, finds a way.

Okay, I'll rephrase it.

 

[SpaceOrbisGaming]

The Bronze Age Collapse was arguably the greatest disaster ever to strike civilization, worse than the fall of the Western Roman Empire, as many of the civilizations of the Bronze Age were destroyed (like the Hittites and the Mycanaeans) or diminished (like Egypt and Assyria), but could it have been even worse? If so, how could it have been worse? Could civilization have been reduced to a tribal and pre-literate state? Can civilization recover from such a blow?

As long as we still have people we would in time regain what we lost no matter how bad the bronze age collapse was. But I guess the loss of Egypt would be a big blow to civilization as a whole.

 

[Whiteshore]

But I guess the loss of Egypt would be a big blow to civilization as a whole.

What could be some good PODs to achieve this?

 

[SpaceRome]

The Bronze Age Collapse was arguably the greatest disaster ever to strike civilization, worse than the fall of the Western Roman Empire, as many of the civilizations of the Bronze Age were destroyed (like the Hittites and the Mycanaeans) or diminished (like Egypt and Assyria), but could it have been even worse? If so, how could it have been worse? Could civilization have been reduced to a tribal and pre-literate state? How long would it take for civilization to recover from such a blow?

I think the most effective way of making the bronze age collapse worse is to make it global. Have civilization in india and china collapse from the lack of trade/invasions from the steppe, and you can have the entirety of afro-eurasia go into a long period of darkness, probably even longer than in OTL (as there would be no china and India to foster trade when civilizations in the west reappear and vice versa)

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

You can't get to wiping out civilization permanently without a geological POD. Climate change would be a good one it but it would have to be the non-manmade version.

We don't know much about the Bronze Age collapse, but if you want to make it worse, have the Sea Peoples take out Egypt.

 

[SpaceOrbisGaming]

What could be some good PODs to achieve this?

As Spacerome said make it go global. Pull in more civilizations than just the west/middle east that would make it a hell of alot worse. Maybe even add some climate change to help in the overall collapse. Past that I'm not really sure how you could make it much worse IMHO.

 

[Arcavia]

There's also the theory that the Collapse was caused by seismic activity...

Would it be possible for this activity to spread further south and alter the course of the Nile in such a way that it no longer floods?

 

[SpaceRome]

Maybe even add some climate change to help in the overall collapse

Is it plausible/non ASB for an extreme warm period to make the heartlands of civilisations unfit for agriculture? Mesopotemia, egypt and india would be the most susceptible to warm periods, but if you can make china too hot/dry for rice cultivation you could also kill them off.

Civilization will take a lot longer to recover from this, as the post-collapse civs must be in way, WAY colder areas. it might take thousands of years for people in scandinavia or russia or iceland to figure out the entire shtick again, from scratch.

 

[SpaceOrbisGaming]

Is it plausible/non ASB for an extreme warm period to make the heartlands of civilisations unfit for agriculture? Mesopotemia, egypt and india would be the most susceptible to warm periods, but if you can make china too hot/dry for rice cultivation you could also kill them off.

Civilization will take a lot longer to recover from this, as the post-collapse civs must be in way, WAY colder areas. it might take thousands of years for people in scandinavia or russia or iceland to figure out the entire shtick again, from scratch.

I would say it's plausible however it may be better to have seismic activity be a big part in the collapse. Volcanic eruptions blocking out the sun killing crops, earthquakes disrupting the flow of rivers such as the Nile maybe not stopping the flooding altogether but making it less predictable.

But the best way to make it the worsed it could possibly be is to have something happen that kills us all off. But something tells me that's not what your going for so yeah

 

[AnonymousSauce]

There's also the theory that the Collapse was caused by seismic activity...

Would it be possible for this activity to spread further south and alter the course of the Nile in such a way that it no longer floods?

Or worse yet, so that it drains into the Red Sea somewhere on the coast of Sudan and doesn't even make it to Egypt anymore?

Is it plausible/non ASB for an extreme warm period to make the heartlands of civilisations unfit for agriculture? Mesopotemia, egypt and india would be the most susceptible to warm periods, but if you can make china too hot/dry for rice cultivation you could also kill them off.

Civilization will take a lot longer to recover from this, as the post-collapse civs must be in way, WAY colder areas. it might take thousands of years for people in scandinavia or russia or iceland to figure out the entire shtick again, from scratch.

I would think that is you wanted to make the climate dry enough that agriculture in the founder areas wasn't possible anymore, cooling, not warming, would be the direction you'd want to go. AFAIK the Green Sahara was during the warmest period following the last Ice Age, whereas if you look at maps from the Ice Age you'll see much of the area that is still warm enough for human habitation is covered by desert or semi-arid area.

 

[Arcavia]

Or worse yet, so that it drains into the Red Sea somewhere on the coast of Sudan and doesn't even make it to Egypt anymore?

I doubt it would get diverted into Sudan, but it might be possible to make the meltwater of the Ethiopian highlands drain into an elongated Victoria-Malawi lake system rather than the Nile, for the same effect.

 

[Whiteshore]

Anyways, how do we screw over Mesopotamia? Keep in mind that Mesopotamia was arguably the area least affected by the Bronze Age Collapse in Western Eurasia (the Middle East and Europe).

 

[Umbral]

The problem is we don't really know much about what cause the collapse, and that makes speculation hard. Climate change leading to increased aridity has been one of the theories, but its currently looking weaker.

We're also finding it was more widespread than we though. Remains of a Homeric size battle where the Danish-German border is today. Professional warriors from all over southern Europe, thousands of skeletons. Trade collapsing across Europe, villages staring to build city walls.

It is quite possible we do not yet have the full picture of how widespread it was.

 

[Escape Zeppelin]

The problem is we don't really know much about what cause the collapse, and that makes speculation hard.

Very much this. It's hard to make a POD involving the Bronze Age collapse for the very reason that we don't know much about it. Even the scale, extent, and what should and shouldn't be considered part of it are up for speculation.

 

[AnonymousSauce]

The problem is we don't really know much about what cause the collapse, and that makes speculation hard. Climate change leading to increased aridity has been one of the theories, but its currently looking weaker.

We're also finding it was more widespread than we though. Remains of a Homeric size battle where the Danish-German border is today. Professional warriors from all over southern Europe, thousands of skeletons. Trade collapsing across Europe, villages staring to build city walls.

It is quite possible we do not yet have the full picture of how widespread it was.

I suspect that the Seima-Turbino horizon caused a cascading domino effect of migrations that upset the delicate balance that allowed for the continued tin trade, and that displaced peoples from the Western Med made up the core of the Sea Peoples confederation that picked up other disaffected maritime people as it crossed the Med eastward.

 

[Mike Stearns]

Could a Mount Toba-like event in the late Bronze Age result in humanity returning to the Stone Age?

 

[Whiteshore]

So, how likely is it for an even worse Bronze Age Collapse to result in a situation where it is the New World which discovers the Old World? At the very least, this would probably result in a more equal playing field when Eurasian and Amerindian civilizations make first contact.

 

[Alternator]

Could a Mount Toba-like event in the late Bronze Age result in humanity returning to the Stone Age?

No. Copper was locally plentiful for many human population centers, and suffices to maintain metalworking.