AHC: Make the Birds of Prey TV Series More Successful

Birds of Prey was a short-lived TV series from about ten years ago. From what I understand, it was losely based on a comic book series of the same name, and followed the adventures of Barabra Gordon, the former Batgirl turned Oracle following a shooting with The Joker, Black Canary, and Helena Kyle as The Huntress, who is also the lovechild of Catwoman and Batman. Batman has left the city, I think of a broken heart or something, and it now falls to those three to protect the city from "metahumans".

The series also included a really odd take on the character of Harley Quinn, turning her from the Joker's cheif henchgirl into a mastermind evil psychiatrist and the shows main villian.

The show itself only last one season, 13 episodes in total. Your challenege is to make it more successful. You can do this however you want, but the basic story line of those three women protecting Gotham has to be the same. Try to have it last between 4-8 seasons.
 

sharlin

Banned
Terribad, really really teribad show. I don't know how they could make it better. Only thing nearly as bad was the Robocop TV show where NO ONE died. EVER.
 
The main problem of the series, as I see it, it was that it hadn't a clear objective, as well as the mythology was quite... odd. If I had to change elements of teh series, I would eliminate the 'metahuman' angle in its entirety, and made it closer to the ground, maybe using elements the never produced "Batman Triumphant" movie as part of the backstory of the series (the idea of teh movie was to go back to the dark roots of Batman, but "Batman and Robin" happened). And also to give a more comic-accurate incarnation of Black Canary (appearance of Green Arrow, as an optional extra). BAsically retool the first season with tighter continuity, and a sense of a developing story, not a "psycho/metahuman of the week" structure.
 
I think it should have stuck to the Comics, the whole Huntress as Earth-2 but all dark, not really workable, so please give us Helena Bertinelli, using Earth-2 stuff and mixing it with New Earth than trying to dumb it down enough for a TV show, while mixing in TV stuff was about as good a plan as putting your dick in dry ice
 
Remember that it was 2002, the whole New Earth was still a few years away. And I like bringing back the original Huntress (yes, I'm an old timer, so what?), and linking it, even vaguely, to the '90s Batman movies.
 
Remember that it was 2002, the whole New Earth was still a few years away. And I like bringing back the original Huntress (yes, I'm an old timer, so what?), and linking it, even vaguely, to the '90s Batman movies.

hm? I meant New Earth as in DC after 1985 and the Crisis, any ways by 2002 original Huntress had been dead and gone for 17 years, and the New one had been around for 13 years and with 1999's No Man's Land made a great mark for her self in the Bat Family

that is to say only NERDS of the highest level would know Huntress at all, than going back and digging up the old one and leaving non-fans going "wait Batman has a kid?" and than no Batman, it's just asking for trouble.
 
Dump the whole "New Gotham" thing. Why did they rename the city?

Also, I remember some fans being PO'd that Batman had left Gotham in his grief after the Joker killed Catwoman. They claimed that made him a coward.

(And isn't one of his big character traits "supreme willpower"? This is a guy who had his back broken and rehabilitated himself fairly quickly.)

If I were running the show, I'd have depicted Batman going insane with rage at Catwoman's death and killing the Joker, then having a BSOD and going into exile for violating his "one rule."

This gets Batman out of the way in a manner true to his character and eliminates the Joker, allowing for Harley Quinn to come into her own as a major villain rather than as the Joker's girlfriend/minion.
 
hm? I meant New Earth as in DC after 1985 and the Crisis, any ways by 2002 original Huntress had been dead and gone for 17 years, and the New one had been around for 13 years and with 1999's No Man's Land made a great mark for her self in the Bat Family

But it wasn't NAMED "New Earth" until after Infinite Crisis (2005). And, well, my perceptions are colored because I have never liked Bertinelli's Huntress as a character.

that is to say only NERDS of the highest level would know Huntress at all, than going back and digging up the old one and leaving non-fans going "wait Batman has a kid?" and than no Batman, it's just asking for trouble.

Well, I'm a nerd, so what?

Dump the whole "New Gotham" thing. Why did they rename the city?

God knows...

Also, I remember some fans being PO'd that Batman had left Gotham in his grief after the Joker killed Catwoman. They claimed that made him a coward.

(And isn't one of his big character traits "supreme willpower"? This is a guy who had his back broken and rehabilitated himself fairly quickly.)

If I were running the show, I'd have depicted Batman going insane with rage at Catwoman's death and killing the Joker, then having a BSOD and going into exile for violating his "one rule."

Yep, pretty much. That one of that ideas that I'm playing with, if we combine taht with shooting Barbara "Killing Joke"-style, and maybe killing Jason Todd, the rookie Robin (after Dick has left), we have teh recipe to turn Batman fully nuts.

This gets Batman out of the way in a manner true to his character and eliminates the Joker, allowing for Harley Quinn to come into her own as a major villain rather than as the Joker's girlfriend/minion.

Exactly!
 
Well, I'm a nerd, so what?

well the point is that there aren't enough of us nerds to float a whole show on our own, it needs to be able to rope in people who might be only passing fans of comics or not fans at all, you have to hit the sweet spot where the nerds/hardcore fans are happy (or as happy as we get) and normal people can understand what the buggering fuck is going on
 
well the point is that there aren't enough of us nerds to float a whole show on our own, it needs to be able to rope in people who might be only passing fans of comics or not fans at all, you have to hit the sweet spot where the nerds/hardcore fans are happy (or as happy as we get) and normal people can understand what the buggering fuck is going on

Look at the main Marvel movies of the last decade for proof of that concept.

Torqumada
 
well the point is that there aren't enough of us nerds to float a whole show on our own, it needs to be able to rope in people who might be only passing fans of comics or not fans at all, you have to hit the sweet spot where the nerds/hardcore fans are happy (or as happy as we get) and normal people can understand what the buggering fuck is going on

That's teh main problem, as I see it, and if you allow me to get into the soapbox that is where DC has get it wrong when they launched the New 52. .

Look at the main Marvel movies of the last decade for proof of that concept.

Torqumada

Yes.
 
Look at the main Marvel movies of the last decade for proof of that concept.

Torqumada

well I think those hold a little hard to the idea that people who like Comics are all emotionally 12 year old boys, or they mean to be overly camp (most of all Captain America) any ways that works fine for a Run-Gun-Fun action movie thats about 2 hours long and you'll see once or twice but a TV show you're going to go watch every week for 12 or so weeks needs to be a bit deeper, more so if basically every one in it is a girl
 
That's teh main problem, as I see it, and if you allow me to get into the soapbox that is where DC has get it wrong when they launched the New 52. .

while I don't like most of DC's life choices post-2000 (to the point I do my very best not to know what they've done)I don't think you need the Comics to be very non-fan excisable, fans on their own can hold up Comics and love the crazy (well generally love) twists and turns of a character's story, unless they're cheesy bread retarded, like say bring Jason Todd back to life as an anti-hero/bad guy
 
Obviously, it's New Gotham to make it clear that it's the future. I still don't like it, though.
I think that having the Helena Wayne Huntress in the story helps non-fans care about this character. It's Batman's and Catwoman's daughter, who never knew her father, rather than some girl. There are now two members of the team who are directly connected to Batman. But if you make her Helena Bertinelli, you can take out the whole future thing and thereby eliminate all the biggest weird continuity factors. PS, Antonio, try to be more careful in spelling "teh".
 
Obviously, it's New Gotham to make it clear that it's the future. I still don't like it, though.
I think that having the Helena Wayne Huntress in the story helps non-fans care about this character. It's Batman's and Catwoman's daughter, who never knew her father, rather than some girl. There are now two members of the team who are directly connected to Batman. But if you make her Helena Bertinelli, you can take out the whole future thing and thereby eliminate all the biggest weird continuity factors. PS, Antonio, try to be more careful in spelling "teh".

I think its in fact less helpful, non-fans come in "wait Batman and Catwoman had a child?" than wonder if this is something they were suppose to know already or if the TV is pulling shit out of their ass, likewise "its the future" is the lamest story telling cop out if you want shit to happen off screen, and no one likes that, I say Bertinelli, gives us a dark opening (family gunned down at dinner) and thus a reason for being a superhero past "mommy and daddy did it" there's more there to work with emotionally so it matters less to viewer if she's from the comics or made up for the show
 
while I don't like most of DC's life choices post-2000 (to the point I do my very best not to know what they've done)I don't think you need the Comics to be very non-fan excisable, fans on their own can hold up Comics and love the crazy (well generally love) twists and turns of a character's story, unless they're cheesy bread retarded, like say bring Jason Todd back to life as an anti-hero/bad guy

The way they did that in Under the Hood wasn't so bad.

SPOILERS: Ras al-Ghul was angry the Joker had "unnecessarily" killed Robin and used one of his Lazarus Pits to revive him. Nothing weird about Superboy Prime or whatever. Much simpler.
 
Obviously, it's New Gotham to make it clear that it's the future. I still don't like it, though.
I think that having the Helena Wayne Huntress in the story helps non-fans care about this character. It's Batman's and Catwoman's daughter, who never knew her father, rather than some girl. There are now two members of the team who are directly connected to Batman. But if you make her Helena Bertinelli, you can take out the whole future thing and thereby eliminate all the biggest weird continuity factors. PS, Antonio, try to be more careful in spelling "teh".

Given how Batman might have been active for decades (and had an affair with Catwoman during that time) and apparently Helena was elementary-school-aged when her mother was killed, it could be set in the present day or the very near future a la Dark Angel.
 
Here's something else:

Dump the "metahuman" plotline, which seems like an attempt to rip off the X-Men. Basically make it something like Batman Beyond--a kind of "Batman: The Next Generation," only with female protagonists.

You could have older versions of the classic characters--like the vengeful Harley Quinn or the no-longer-Batgirl Oracle--as well as new generations of troublemakers.
 
well I think those hold a little hard to the idea that people who like Comics are all emotionally 12 year old boys, or they mean to be overly camp (most of all Captain America) any ways that works fine for a Run-Gun-Fun action movie thats about 2 hours long and you'll see once or twice but a TV show you're going to go watch every week for 12 or so weeks needs to be a bit deeper, more so if basically every one in it is a girl

True, but you still have to appeal to the greater portion of the public than just those that are comic book fans to be successful . It wasn't we comic book geeks who have managed to garner The Avengers with $1.4 billion in just a few weeks. Heck, I doubt that all of the Avenger's comics sold for the last 49 years haven't garnered that much. (Time for some research.)

Torqumada
 
Yep, pretty much. That one of that ideas that I'm playing with, if we combine taht with shooting Barbara "Killing Joke"-style, and maybe killing Jason Todd, the rookie Robin (after Dick has left), we have teh recipe to turn Batman fully nuts.

Thanks for the endorsement. That could be a prequel/flashback episode arc, perhaps if Helena Kyle seeks out her father to find out what happened.

"Sit down, Helena. Let me explain..."

Then we have a two- or three-episode Batman show in the midst of a Huntress/Oracle show.

Even if Birds of Prey still fails, those episodes would probably be beloved by Batman fans.
 
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