AHC: Make the Articles of Confederation work

MAlexMatt

Banned
Some kind of retaliation mechanism that would allow states to react collectively when other states imposed barriers to trade and movement across state borders.

One of the things that pushed people towards calling a new Convention was the rise of protection by some states against others. Finding some way to guarantee free trade amongst the states without creating a new Federal Constitution would go a long way towards your goal.
 

Flubber

Banned
Any kind of amendment mechanism would have been very helpful. As it stood the only way to amend the Articles was to call a full convention of the signatories. The first and only time that occurred, the Articles ended up being completely replaced by the Constitution.
 
You'd probably need to deal with the speculators in war debts, pensions, land grants, etc.

Rich speculators didn't see the old United States paying them off, and they backed some coup attempts as well as the new constitution.

If one of those coup attempts had grown to civil war, though, it would have prevented the new constitution, but also destroyed the old, either leading to more blatant mercantilism, with internal passports and secret police to break any unions, as the British had, or leading to the overthrow of mercantilism [and all bets are off wrt slavery].
 

Ak-84

Banned
Well at the very least you need a central legislature, a strong central legislature, the beginnings of a Federal Judiciary and an executive, in other words the Constitution
 
Well at the very least you need a central legislature, a strong central legislature, the beginnings of a Federal Judiciary and an executive, in other words the Constitution

If the Articles become the constitution, you don't win the challenge and the cookie.

The idea is to create a USA based around a workable AC.
 
If the Articles become the constitution, you don't win the challenge and the cookie.

The idea is to create a USA based around a workable AC.

Almost impossible. There is a reason it was scrapped. You wound up with a dead broke government, squabbling states and very poor economic policy. Large confederacies are inherently unstable.
 
Amending it...

If the Convention reached an impasse on a new Constitution, then a few smaller changes might let it muddle along.

1. Remove tarriff barriers between states
2. Enable the central government to regulate currency in some form.
3. Allow the legislature to collect tarrifs from foreign trade--perhaps with a limit on the percentage to be collected. Or provide some other form of taxation so the government has funds.
4. Provide a manner of amending the articles.

Now, they might hold together long enough for changes to be made piecemeal--but as articles binding several near sovereign nations together, rather than one contry in the European sence. Perhaps something like the EU is becoming...
 

MAlexMatt

Banned
Almost impossible. There is a reason it was scrapped. You wound up with a dead broke government, squabbling states and very poor economic policy. Large confederacies are inherently unstable.

I don't see how this can be stated categorically. The entire point of this website is that, just because something happened IOTL, doesn't mean it HAD to happen.
 
I don't see how this can be stated categorically. The entire point of this website is that, just because something happened IOTL, doesn't mean it HAD to happen.


The thing is with a weak central government it is very difficult to get tax money, enforce the law or keep the various components from squabbling. In other words it is difficult for the government to do anything we expect a government to do.
 

MAlexMatt

Banned
The thing is with a weak central government it is very difficult to get tax money, enforce the law or keep the various components from squabbling. In other words it is difficult for the government to do anything we expect a government to do.

The contribution mechanism wasn't as bad as it's made out to be. Russel Sobel makes a good argument that it performed just about as good as any taxation system might have.

There are ways to enforce penalties and punishments for flagrant breach of confederation law without creating a powerful central government -- the cooperative retaliation mechanism I mentioned above is just one. If individual states persist in blocking interstate trade, then the Confederation Congress can be used as a mechanism for coordinating a massive retaliation on the part of all other states.

How do you feel about the EU?
 
The contribution mechanism wasn't as bad as it's made out to be. Russel Sobel makes a good argument that it performed just about as good as any taxation system might have.

There are ways to enforce penalties and punishments for flagrant breach of confederation law without creating a powerful central government -- the cooperative retaliation mechanism I mentioned above is just one. If individual states persist in blocking interstate trade, then the Confederation Congress can be used as a mechanism for coordinating a massive retaliation on the part of all other states.

How do you feel about the EU?


Considering what is happening in Greece I am not crazy about it. Personally I think Greece will have to be kicked off the Euro soon. After that it will be followed by Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland in some order. That is what happens when you have sovereign entities trying to share the same currency.
 

MAlexMatt

Banned
Considering what is happening in Greece I am not crazy about it. Personally I think Greece will have to be kicked off the Euro soon. After that it will be followed by Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland in some order. That is what happens when you have sovereign entities trying to share the same currency.

Of course, a surviving confederation in the US probably WOULDN'T have a united, singular currency, except maybe a single standard for weights of gold and silver coins.

I mean, this is something that took 130 years to happen IOTL. Without a strong Federal government, I don't see it ever happening.
 
I don't see how this can be stated categorically. The entire point of this website is that, just because something happened IOTL, doesn't mean it HAD to happen.
Yeah but somethings are just really unlikely, the only way the articles would work was if everyone involved was a very generous idealist or if you made some changes.
 
Now, they might hold together long enough for changes to be made piecemeal--but as articles binding several near sovereign nations together, rather than one contry in the European sence. Perhaps something like the EU is becoming...

That is in some way what I was thinking. If we didn't get the constitution, I see something similar to the EU possibly forming. Maybe not.
 
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