AHC: Make Russo-Japanese War into Great War
- Thread starter anw_rev
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NothingNow
Banned
Honestly, all it would take is the Russian Baltic fleet firing upon German fishermen, and/or a german cruiser (probably a Bremen-class out on sea trials,) in addition to the Dogger Bank incident, that'd probably be enough to do it.
Because once the germans get in, the french get in, and the alliance system kicks into high gear. This also means the Japanese can now get the loans they need to keep the war effort going longer.
Because once the germans get in, the french get in, and the alliance system kicks into high gear. This also means the Japanese can now get the loans they need to keep the war effort going longer.
Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
so basically a British-German-Japanese-Italian-AustroHungarian alliance against a France-Russia alliance. This is not going to end up well for France and Russia.
Onyx
Banned
If the Japanese and Russians spill all over south of Manchuria, there could be a possibility of war
NothingNow
Banned
Yeah, but knowing the records of the Italian and Austro Hungarian armies of WWI, not as bad as you'd think.
But the French Colonial empire would not be in a good state after the war.
Onyx
Banned
The Germans are at their prime in this time, Britain is nearing too
I would expect an earlier development of weaponry though, the Russo-Japanese was actually the first war, not WWI, to have machine guns, barbed wires, the whole defensive manuevers that were seen in WWI (Siege of Port Arthur)
Will Kürlich Kerl
Banned
Once the war spreads to Europe, France has 3 fronts to fight on: the English Channel Front, the German front, and the Italian front. Russia would have three fronts to fight on.
Italy in 1905 is in better condition than 1915 due to not have just fought a war against the OE and not having Cadorna at the helm; if the French goes for the 'attack at any cost' strategy of OTL WWI well you don't need too much for defend the Alps and on North.
Put this together with a German advance in the North and the need to cover the coast due to the Royal Navy and the French are a little over their head
Because Britain on it's own can destroy the French and the Russians at sea but has no incentive to take them on on land. Germany is going to see a war between Britain and France as a chance to take down France's army while Britain deals with the navy. Put yourself in Germany's shoes. Russia's army is losing to Japan in the far east and there are rumblings of a revolution at home. Russia's ally France just ended up at war with Britain which means no more navy and probably a blockade. Also France's colonial empire is at risk . You, Germany, are going to see this as the opportunity of a lifetime to take down your two biggest rivals while they are both losing wars and on the back foot. Plus Britain is going to be eager for you to attack and put pressure on France at home because that weakens her abroad.
This was the period in which the RN had the greatest comparative advantage over its opponents so it can sit at home, destroy the opposing fleets, blockade its enemies, and spend its time seizing their colonies. If Germany joins so much the better for both sides.
(sorry if some of this seems redundant)
What's Russia's third front? The Caucasus? I count Manchuria against Japan and Eastern europe against Germany and Austria but where else?
Well, I don't know if it counts as a "front" exactly, but...
IIRC, Imperial Japan had a plan during the OTL war to smuggle a shipment of rifles into Finland, in hopes of sparking an independence struggle there. That could create another quasi-front, separate from the struggle against Imperial Germany further south.
It's also another way this war would be like WW1, as it would use that war's concept of "revolutionizing".
While the Anglo-German camp will almost certainly win I doubt it would be quite the easy breezy curbstomp a lot of people think it would be. First Britain hasn't worked out the kinks that came to light during the Boer Wars which include the fact iirc that the medical corps rejected around half of the men who turned out for service as being unfit for duty largely due to poor health. German has the issue that it'll have to massively step up nitrate imports since the Haber process won't be around this time which may limit their options for a time. Japan had pretty much shot its load by the time OTL peace process rolled around and will likely need a great deal of financial assistance to stay in assuming it isn't a quick little war. Finally as already been suggested the odds somewhat favor Italy and AH being the mixed blessing as allies in this timeline as they were in ours.
As for the other side France if memory serves hadn't yet adopted its insane elan will always carry the day attitude that they had during our WWI. Combine that with the fact that both Russia and France will almost certainly realize their only chance to win or more likely to avoid total defeat would be to bleed the other side dry which likely means they stay firmly on the defensive which likely will be a good thing especially if Russia is willing to give ground in a play for time.
As for the other side France if memory serves hadn't yet adopted its insane elan will always carry the day attitude that they had during our WWI. Combine that with the fact that both Russia and France will almost certainly realize their only chance to win or more likely to avoid total defeat would be to bleed the other side dry which likely means they stay firmly on the defensive which likely will be a good thing especially if Russia is willing to give ground in a play for time.
But if the reason for war is the dogger bank incident, wouldn't Germany go east? Schlieffen made his "idea" in 1905 if I remember correctly, this is 1904 and why should Germany even attack France? Stop the French dead in Alsace-Lorrain while hitting Russia together with Austria-Hungary, no reason to give the other powers any reason to believe that Germany planned the whole thing to become a european hegemon.
If the French think that they should attack Germany while Germany was attacked for no reason by Russia (even if it was an accident) then the French are at fault for all that happens in western Europe. If Britain is in the war as well then any move via Belgium (after Russia is finished) by the Germans (assuming that the French didn't try it first) could have been worked out with London to prevent ideas about Germany planning to take the channel ports coming up.
By the way, would France really jump into this? I mean, Russia is having trouble handling Japan and now Germany, likely A-H and perhaps even Italy and Britain are at war with Russia. And they were provoked by Russia and did not attack Russia for no reason. Would Paris really be mad enough to risk this game? And how would they even sell this to the public? I doubt your average Frenchman is looking forward to dying for Tsar Nicolas and russian madness.
If the French think that they should attack Germany while Germany was attacked for no reason by Russia (even if it was an accident) then the French are at fault for all that happens in western Europe. If Britain is in the war as well then any move via Belgium (after Russia is finished) by the Germans (assuming that the French didn't try it first) could have been worked out with London to prevent ideas about Germany planning to take the channel ports coming up.
By the way, would France really jump into this? I mean, Russia is having trouble handling Japan and now Germany, likely A-H and perhaps even Italy and Britain are at war with Russia. And they were provoked by Russia and did not attack Russia for no reason. Would Paris really be mad enough to risk this game? And how would they even sell this to the public? I doubt your average Frenchman is looking forward to dying for Tsar Nicolas and russian madness.
Would convoys help against surface raiders the same way they did submarines? In 1905 France had only just shifted away from the jeune ecole school so most of its fleet would have been from that era. French ships from the jeune ecole period were of.... questionable design.