It would be far more interesting to have the old indian republics surviving untill today and becoming democracies.
AHC: Make Russia Europes first democracy
- Thread starter Rainbow Sparkle
- Start date
The Cosmonaut Cat
Banned
I'm not sure what size or "world power" status has to do with "warrant[ing] being a democracy". OTL Russia, China, Spanish Empire, Ottoman Empire, etc. were each in their day and age both large in size and world-powers yet it didn't manifest into democracy spontaniously arrising there.
I think the simplest way to fulfill the OP would be to have the Zemsky Sbor develop into an early representative democracy after Ivan the Terrible.
Another idea: Tsardom of Moscovy joins the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (OTL this was proposed at different times by different people). Thus Russia is a member of Europe's 1st modern democracy when it arises.
The Cosmonaut Cat
Banned
I thought it was generally accepted that Europe's 1st democracy (in the modern sense) was the PLC in late 18th century?
Because if you count Polish Sejm than what about Rus Veche?
If you we're counting "Ting" (or however you spell it) as democracy than surely the aforementioned Rus Veche, which was practiced around the same time as the "tings", makes the cut?
I think it makes more sense to talk about "modern" democracies when it comes to the OP.
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GdwnsnHo
Banned
So we can't include Kurultai?
Basically, if you can have the Kievan Rus or Novgorod extend voting rights to traders and landholders, then you are most of the way there.
Avoiding serfdom would be vital, hence going back a fair bit.
My personal choice would be to have Novgorod somehow overwhelm the Hansa, and have some (potentially nuts) reformer extend voting rights to all landholders and city dwellers - which without serfdom pretty much covers everyone - in order to encourage immigration from other principalities.
Plus, if every man is registered to vote (I assumed men only above), it is easier to find them to conscript in wars against the other Russian Princes.
Crossing the gender gap - not immediately obvious to me, but I'm unaware if women merchants existed/could vote in Novgorod
The Cosmonaut Cat
Banned
Kievan Rus had voting rights to begin with?
I don't belive it is "vital" to avoid serfdom. PLC had serfdom and they became the 1st "modern" european democracy. So did the Britiain when their parlemrnt was 1st around.
Besides, if you want to avoid serfdom the Kivan Rus might not be early enough: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smerd
I'm not sure if it counts as "Russia", but if Khmelnytsky was less of a reactionary ass I guess something progressive could come out of the Cossack Hetmanate.
The Cosmonaut Cat
Banned
Ah, yes, the Hetmonate is said to have had a form of elective leadership or somesuch. It's been a while since I read about it.
I read somewhere that the state of the late Rus was more a fragmented realm with local rulers paying lip service to their nominal ruler. Maybe something could evolve out the independent "dukes" maybe an electorate, some sort of way for them to form a government with them each having a say in the rule of the land while reducing the role of Kiev as figure head of the Rus states.
A much more static and established order of business between the nominal head and the vassals. OTL the HRE devolved into a mess and kept on until central germany became a mess of kleinstaaterei . Anything like this would be far more organized on the side of the dukes rather than a tug of war that pulls down the state. Surely there will be a ruler every now and then who wishes to challenge the system and their oppositions will be crushed and the system would continue as is.