AHC: Make Hong Kong a tougher nut to crack

BlondieBC

Banned
I would say maybe a January 1942 surrender, with most of Kowloon and Hong Kong Island leveled. Occupation is harsher as a result.

One thing I'm not sure is if I can get IJA to commit more troops than OTL. Tying down some forces and Singapore might hold out longer as well? Hmmm...

Marc A

This is why i went longer. If the run into problems, they will just move down the heavy siege guns which will take a bit of time. About 30 days later, HK is conquered, so January is right for pre positioned guns, March is closer to correct if they have to be shipped or railed to the HK area.
 
And for a couple of Brigades, all the leader really needs is a core of quality officers that understand the Chinese culture and language.

I would not go with financial rewards, where does the money come from? If there is some slush fund, a much better investment will be better weapons. BTW, where does the funding for the two brigades come from?

There seem to be two routes to recruit quality officers. The routes can be combined:
1.) Pure patriotism (difficult as Hong Kong is a colony)
2.) Make quality military service upwardly mobile economically and socially.

The second option is where the cash comes in (very competitive salary for talented leaders). The cash for salaries and weapons could probably come from a special tax in Hong Kong. The Chinese business elite would not object if the tax facilitated stability under the British and the British emphasized that the Hong Kong Reserves would also keep communist aggitators out.

I like that Cryptic...it seems ok...what about air power...Japanese bring in carriers that is one thing HK may not be ready for...
Thanks for the compliment. Unfortunatly, the heroic Hong Kong Reserves cannot resist against airpower and Japaense reinforcements indefinetly. I think the March 1942 date is the longest they can hold out.
 
Last edited:
Maybe have the surrender on Twelfth Night rather than Christmas Day to keep some symbolism (and a cool war movie title in due course)?

But the big question is, how does Hong Kong holding out for longer affect other the wider war in Asia?
 
Do I remember reading something about the Japanese Intelligence agencies having infiltrated Hong Kong to a rather impressive extent? I'm sure I remember something about an IJA colonel posing as a barber in one of the major Hong Kong hotels, a hotel that many British officers used to get their hair cut! Careless talk costs lives... :(
 
But the big question is, how does Hong Kong holding out for longer affect other the wider war in Asia?

The Japanese were on a very strict time table and had relatively few category "A" divisons in which to accomplish their goals. In OTL, the stand at the Baatan led to hasty asaults using category "B" reinforcements. If Hong Kong needed the customary 3-1 force ratio for a successful assault, the Japanese would need to find three category "A" divisions. Unfortunalty (from the allied pov), the Japanese could find the divisions and would capture Hong Kong in a few months.

But... heavy casualties among category "A" troops at Hong Kong would lead to
-fewer category "A" troops available for the Pacific and New Guinea
-fewer category "A" troops in strategic reserve for the eventual defense of The Phillipines and Japan.

The deficit would probably make a strategic difference, but one of the main points of the die hards in late '44-45 was that the Japanese Army was still largely intact and that there were a certain number of category "A" divisions in Japan for the final battle. If there were fewer category "A"s avaialable, then I imagine that the pro cease fire / surrender arguments would have been stronger by a degree.
I'm sure I remember something about an IJA colonel posing as a barber in one of the major Hong Kong hotels, a hotel that many British officers used to get their hair cut! Careless talk costs lives... :(

A Japanese colonel who was a good barber, spoke English and was fluent enough in Cantonese to pass for a local? My guess is that the barber was a real barber, was actually Chinese and was being paid by the Japanese colonel.
 
Last edited:
Another thing to consider is, with a PoD as early as 1930 (cool idea by the way), this approach could have an impact on colonial defence policy generally and have other posessions adopting similar systems. The inclusion of students etc into the military system could also have an impact on relations between the government and the populace. So we're looking at 2 brigade's worth of local defenders, (3 times the force Canada sent). Maybe in this scenario Canada's contribution might be an engineer company or 2 to add depth to the Gin Drinker's line. So, better fortifications and 4 extra infantry battalions, how much time would this buy?
 
Two possible possibilities 1) have the British train and equip a force of 2-3 British Chinese Brigades this would give them a lot more troops. Another possibility is for better co-operation between the Chinese Nationalist Army and the British ofr the defense of the region.
 
A Japanese colonel who was a good barber, spoke English and was fluent enough in Cantonese to pass for a local? My guess is that the barber was a real barber, was actually Chinese and was being paid by the Japanese colonel.
When you put it like that... :eek:

It's something I read quite a few years ago, and am probably misremembering. Your guess is a lot more likely Cryptic.
You're also right on the money regarding the strict timetable, and limited good quality units available to the Japanese.

As Some Bloke says, the big impact could be if other colonial areas (especially Malaya, Burma, Singapore) decide to develop a similar system...
 
So the consensus is if the Brits recruited and equipped (properly) more local troops Hong Kong can hold out anywhere from two weeks to three months longer? Its valiant stand could then wreak havoc on Japanese timetable for the rest of SE Asia, which means Singapore fought on longer, a more successful Burma Campaign (for the Allies), and... argh the butterflies. :eek:

Marc A
 
Here's an idea, instead of pulling back to the island and spreading out on it. Have the defenders defend the mainland mountains, that way the water supply would still be avalible and the defenses easier than the island itself. It won't save the colony but it would be much bloodier for the Japs.

The island had poor roads, long coastlines and poor defensive terrain compared to the Gin drinkers line. As opposed to OTL where the Gin drinkers line was abandoned, have the C-force fight a withdrawing battle, eventually retreating to the island. Again, unlike OTL instead of spreading out to defend the entire island, concentrate the forces in one part to counterattack any landings. Nothings needs to change here except the commanding officer , or the info he receives , or one of his aides.

Now even a handful of tanks will do, the Japanese have no real training for anti-tank warfare. But the hard part is getting tanks posted to HK when Britain's priority one.



& the island itself

 
Here's an idea, instead of pulling back to the island and spreading out on it. Have the defenders defend the mainland mountains, that way the water supply would still be avalible and the defenses easier than the island itself. It won't save the colony but it would be much bloodier for the Japs.

The island had poor roads, long coastlines and poor defensive terrain compared to the Gin drinkers line. As opposed to OTL where the Gin drinkers line was abandoned, have the C-force fight a withdrawing battle, eventually retreating to the island. Again, unlike OTL instead of spreading out to defend the entire island, concentrate the forces in one part to counterattack any landings. Nothings needs to change here except the commanding officer , or the info he receives , or one of his aides.

Now even a handful of tanks will do, the Japanese have no real training for anti-tank warfare. But the hard part is getting tanks posted to HK when Britain's priority one.



& the island itself


IIRC that was the OTL plan - until IJA took Shing Mun Redoubt by surprise and the line collapsed. I'll have to do some research on it further to figure out what went wrong.

Marc A

P.S. BTW the maps look good. Thanks for posting. :)
 
Top