AHC: make Fairey Battle relevant until 1945

I'd agree with that; as the design evolves around a liquid-cooled powerplant, it becomes harder and harder to change it without requiring more extensive modifications.

Also, let it be said that threads like this are a huge reason I like AH.com.

Most AH Websites My Age: "WI: Super Yamato vs. Mega Montana vs. H-44 AGAIN!!1!!" "WI: Notler and the Notzis Built 50 000 Jets in 1941?"

AH.com: "WI: Obsolescent Light Bomber adapted into Carrier-Based Torpedo Bomber with capabilities in line with contemporaries?"

We are more David Lean than JJ Abrams!!!
 
So to my thinking an aircraft that starts life with a Merlin and whose air frame and basic design serves on for the entire war either ends with a Merlin or is adapted to the Griffon

The Grumman Avenger had a slightly larger Wing than the Battle,490 Sq.Ft. It had 335 Gallons of Internal fuel, vs
a 255 gallon main , plus 54 fuselage and 39 wing tanks.

It's good enough to last the war with engine upgrades, but what gave the Avenger and Skyraider such long postwar lives, was lots of volume
for addition room for electronics, and operator. Battle is a bit too small for AEW use or tanker, as the Avenger could carry an aux 275 gallon tank in the bomb bay
 
The Grumman Avenger had a slightly larger Wing than the Battle,490 Sq.Ft. It had 335 Gallons of Internal fuel, vs
a 255 gallon main , plus 54 fuselage and 39 wing tanks.

It's good enough to last the war with engine upgrades, but what gave the Avenger and Skyraider such long postwar lives, was lots of volume
for addition room for electronics, and operator. Battle is a bit too small for AEW use or tanker, as the Avenger could carry an aux 275 gallon tank in the bomb bay

Once Avenger enters the game in numbers pretty much during 1943 it is very next gen as far as carrier strike planes go and it was the right aircraft for the 2nd half of the war as far as Allied carrier strike planes go

However what would the Sea Battle be after 3 years of wartime development - you are of course matching a 1942+ produced aircraft with a 1937-40 produced one!?

Just look at the improvements of the Fulmar II over the Fulmar I - aircraft development advanced rapidly in those years

I suspect that a Griffon Engined 1942 made Sea battle would have none of that wing bomb bay stuff and instead have increase Fuel tanks and with a powerful engine be able to have a far greater MTOWA than the 1940 model

But certainly AEW and tanker roles were not envisaged when the Battle was designed (or the Avenger for that matter)
 
Illustrious did not get bombed during Op Judgement - she was bombed in Jan 41 during Operation Excess ;)
I remembered that later, but the knock on effects of having a Sea Battle in service from 1938 could still save her. If you have a torpedo bomber capable of 257mph then you're going to want a fighter capable of much more than that so relying on the Sea Gladiator and later the Fulmar isn't on.
 
Having a Sea Battle as the primary FAA TBR aircraft at the start of the war on the larger carriers - Ark Royal, Glorious, Furious, and Courageous while having String Bags on Eagle, Argus, and Hermes completely retools the FAA for WW2. Not only does the FAA have the world's premier carrier borne strike aircraft, but as PLP said, it means they have probably have to develop a comparable fighter as well (let's say the Sea Hurricane for simplicity sake). I still like the Fulmar for its range and high ammunition capacity so let's the RN begins the war with mixed air groups of Sea Battles, Sea Hurricanes, and Fulmars for its four larger carriers. In 1939 that is far superior to what the US and the Japanese are operating.
 
The Fulmar would be a long range scout and fighter bomber not have to serve as the primary fleet defence fighter.

It would also be the patrol fighter. The plane you keep in a two or four ship CAP over the task force with 60 gallon drop tanks under their bellies for four and five hour patrols over the fleet. They would chase away snoopers and serve as the standing airborne alert fighters while the short legged Sea Hurricanes sit on deck alert (Ready Five in modern USN parlance), ready to launch if needed.
 
The apparently limitless possibilities for PODs in British 1930s defence policy never ceases to amaze me.

Wasn't one of the ideas the RN/FAA had for 2 types of fighters? The escort/scout with longer range and the interceptor for fleet defence. The Sea Battle, Fulmar fighter bomber, & the Sea Hurricane would be able to fill all the roles the RN want from their carriers fairly successfully.
 
When you put the two side-by-side, the Battle is roughly comparable to the Nakajima B5N "Kate" torpedo bomber. The Kate can carry a slightly heavier payload, the Battle is a bit faster, but range is about the same. In the case of this AHC, the FAA is permitted to order an all-metal monoplane torpedo bomber, which is just a modification of an RAF light bomber. The Sea Battle features a slightly breathed upon Merlin (and this is really the biggest bottleneck) to make up for the weight increases from carrier gear and the new inward-retracting undercarriage and strengthening to carry a torpedo. While the Sea Battle isn't a frontline aircraft by 1945 anymore, it soldiers on, due to its more powerful and capable replacements not arriving until later. Its docile handling characteristics make it easy to land on a carrier, and many worn examples are used as trainers for the next generation of FAA and Imperial aviators.

If you wanted a full Battlewank, later Marks replace the Merlin with a Griffon, put 4x HS.404 20mm cannon in the wings, reduce the crew from 3 to 1, and replace the long glazing with a teardrop bubble canopy to reduce weight and improve visibility (although this would alter the centre of gravity and require modifications). The Sea Super Battle also gains the capability to mount drop tanks, and its long wings allow rockets to be mounted outboard, so it becomes quite a potent ASW and AShW platform in its day.

200 kgs of added weight to toughen it up for CATOBAR operations WWII straightliner fashion, I'm not seeing it. Better to try dumping that third GIB and save weight by redesigning the wing as a land bird.
 
Well if you turn into a torpedo bomber you obviously eliminate the whole third crew member and the associated gear.
 
TBD and Kate kept that for level bombing

You have to look at how the Battle is configured. The whole bombing apparatus with the third crew member would have been redundant and probably wasteful with all of the equipment for a torpedo slung under the airframe.
 
You have to look at how the Battle is configured. The whole bombing apparatus with the third crew member would have been redundant and probably wasteful with all of the equipment for a torpedo slung under the airframe.

How much redesign are we looking at if we opt for a 6 meter pannier bomb bay?
 
Perhaps instead of the wing bomb cells the Battle is designed to make use of one of these under the fuselage.

Vickers_Wellesley_MKI.jpg
 
You have to look at how the Battle is configured. The whole bombing apparatus with the third crew member would have been redundant and probably wasteful with all of the equipment for a torpedo slung under the airframe.
One of the reasons for the TBD angled Torpedo, there was a tunnel for the Bombardier to crawl into to get to the Norden Bombsight
TBD+Bombing+Doors+1505-1519.jpg

The Japanese just offset the Torpedo to give the sight clearance
Kate-with-Torpedo-1024x537.jpg

Avenger, with window inside the Bomb Bay for the bombsight
Figure8.jpg

Before the War, Level Bombing was thought to be very important, so this won't change until later in the war
 
FTMEP, the Fairy twin Battle drawings show at least two forward firing MG in the nose plus a K gun aft, so it could not only defend itself but also deter snoopers around the fleet and Convoys. I have always had a soft spot for a combination of Hawker and Fairey FAA aircraft for 1939:- TBR/S Albacore (Battle) DBFR/S Sea Henley, FFR/S Fulmar (or turretless Hotspur) and FF Hurricane. this might seem a lot of ait frames and it might well be that the Hurricane is not made available due to the needs of Fighter Command or AM/Naval prejudice against single seat fighters, In that case once the Hotspur is established then Hurricane is flown on by a Hotspur pilots to prove the concept.
 
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