AHC: Make Canada into a Superpower without more territory.

AsGryffynn

Banned
If population density goes over the roof, do not mind it. Just so long as their density isn't impractically high (with cities like Vancouver, thinking about Canada's four largest cities being Tokyo clones with Manila's density is well within what I'm asking. Their cities could be hypervancouvers, so to speak).
 
Four Cities like that is 40-80 Million.

Anyway, what if USA acquired Canada, would that count?

If the French let the Huguenots migrate to Canada coupled with Excellent migration policies. Those can make Canada have more population than the thirteen colonies down south. That would probably change the Seven years war outcome in North America.

I can only imagine Louisiana will fuse with Canada as one nation upon rebellion from the French. That's one huge country surrounding the thirteen colonies. It will just probably replace an ATL USA instead of an English speaking nation into a French speaking nation.
 
If population density goes over the roof, do not mind it. Just so long as their density isn't impractically high (with cities like Vancouver, thinking about Canada's four largest cities being Tokyo clones with Manila's density is well within what I'm asking. Their cities could be hypervancouvers, so to speak).

Given that Canada basically has infinite space, cities tend to grow outward, not upward (Vancouver being hemmed in by the mountains and Montreal being on an island being the exceptions.

Without extra territory, making Canada a superpower is tricky. You'd need an earlier transcontinental railway to really settle the prairie any earlier... as well as heavier plows an different strains of wheat (which could be rye instead if you really needed in a pinch).

If everything goes well (not guaranteed given that an earlier transcontinental would be a monumental undertaking) you might have a Canada of about 60+ million people today, most of it settled through Southern Ontario through to Quebec City and a massive city on the West Coast. Hardly superpower territory though.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Before 1900?

If population density goes over the roof, do not mind it. Just so long as their density isn't impractically high (with cities like Vancouver, thinking about Canada's four largest cities being Tokyo clones with Manila's density is well within what I'm asking. Their cities could be hypervancouvers, so to speak).


Before 1900? And without additional territory?

Start counting moose as people?

Canada is empty today, with a population density along the lines of the Sahara...

What's the driver? As it was, Canada even after Confederation had a difficult time attracting emigrants, certainly from Europe, and I don't see much of a willingness to open the doors to Asian emigrants, even today.

Best,
 
Alternate great wars and revolutions through the nineteenth century and into the twentieth? Nativist USA less inviting to immigrants?

Get more people to leave Europe and get a larger fraction to come to Canada.
 
A more closed American immigration policy, especially during the Springtime of Nations, could well see a lot more immigrants directed to Canada, though I'm not sure that the technology at the time lets them survive (I'm thinking mostly agriculture). There may also be a way to direct a lot of Australian immigrants to Canada - perhaps get the Klondike Gold Rush before the NSW and Victoria Rushes? Though that's a gap of 50 years...
 
Before 1900? And without additional territory?

Start counting moose as people?

Canada is empty today, with a population density along the lines of the Sahara...

What's the driver? As it was, Canada even after Confederation had a difficult time attracting emigrants, certainly from Europe, and I don't see much of a willingness to open the doors to Asian emigrants, even today.

Best,
No, there arent nearly enough moose. ;):p

Seriously this is ASB. Sorry, but... The Prairies can't grow enough food to support a high population until 1) the introduction of the steel plow and a functional reaper, 2) short growing season wheat is bred.

Moreover, you need a railway to get that food to the population centers and to get goods into the prairies.

If a functional StLawrence Seaway had been built a century earlier, you might have been able to get away with rail just from the Lakehead to *Winnipeg (building rail from Winnipeg to the Rockies is trivial, whats really, really hard is the Canadian Shield portion - and through the mountains, but thats a shorter length)

Of course, relying on a transport mthod that leaves the western half of the country out of communication with the east for a third of the year is just asking for trouble.

OK, so. An earlier seaway, a lake/rail.connexion west in the 1840s, not reaching *Vancouver until sometime in the 1850s. A nativist US, so the people coming to Canada stay instead of heading south....

Could you get Canada to 50 million or more by today? Probably. But the US is amazingly rich in resources and land, and isnt nearly as linear. It's beyond comprehension that Canada could be more powerful than the US.

Could Canada be a Great Power, like Brtain or Germany? Yes. Tough, yes, very tough, but doable.

Can it be a Superpower? That would surely mean both Superpowers in the world are in North America, which at best seems unlikely. What happened to Europe?

No. Canada being a Superpower is, at best, close to ASB, and any way it could come close would involve Vlad Tepes levels of devastation in Europe and possibly Asia. Without significantly affecting Canada...
 

TFSmith121

Banned
But the moose are so polite...

No, there arent nearly enough moose. ;):p...

But the moose are so polite...how about we count the beaver as well, ey?:)

The problem with trying to get significant population increases in Canada is the same as (for example) Alaska, Scandinavia, and northern Russia...it's too darn cold.

There's a reason the two wealthiest parts of the world are the temparate zones of Europe and North America...

Best,
 
Can we give Canada different territory, as long as it's the same amount? If so, that makes things a lot easier. Quebec used to claim the area between the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. IOTL, this area includes Chicago, several other major cities, a lot of farmland, and most of the Great Lakes. If the Seven Years War had gone differently, perhaps that area could have become the province of South Quebec, and attracted numerous immigrants from both overseas and the rapidly-growing US or 13 colonies. As history goes on, maybe Canada does expand to the Pacific Ocean, but leaves the north out of its territory. Maybe Canada doesn't expand into Rupert's Land, but does expand to the Gulf Coast and maybe even swallows up the entire Atlantic Coast.

However, if Canada's territory has to resemble OTL, then it would be difficult. If nothing else, you'd have to explain why it doesn't use its power to expand to the south.
 

libbrit

Banned
I dont think its really possible. Territorial size does not a superpower make-nor infact does large a large amount natural resources, or else Australia and Brazil would likewise be globe bestriding colossi. Alas they are not.

Canada is massive, but only a small fraction of its massive territory is suitable for human habitation without major outside help (almost no one lives in the far north for a reason, and that reason isnt just because it might get a bit nippy in the winter).
 
Seems impossible at this time. Now if this was future history then by all means Canada will have a possiblity to gain more and more population if current climate tendencies continue.
 

U.S David

Banned
You need more people

Maybe have the South win the American Civil War. Immigrants will want to come to a more stable country. This could be a population boom.

Or have a massive famine hit Great Britain and Ireland. And have worst relations with the US. They end up in Canada.

What do you guys think?
 
Canada is empty today, with a population density along the lines of the Sahara...

Best,
While I do not disagree with your argument per se, do think this comment is just a wee bit exaggerated. Canada is much more densely populated than the Sahara!

I admit, I had to look it up. Canada's population density in 2013 was approximately 8.5 people per square mile while the Sahara has about 1 person per square mile.
 

AsGryffynn

Banned
I dont think its really possible. Territorial size does not a superpower make-nor infact does large a large amount natural resources, or else Australia and Brazil would likewise be globe bestriding colossi. Alas they are not.

Canada is massive, but only a small fraction of its massive territory is suitable for human habitation without major outside help (almost no one lives in the far north for a reason, and that reason isnt just because it might get a bit nippy in the winter).

I can't help but bring comparisons to Japan. Is Canada lacking that much territory? Is it really far smaller than Japan?
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Okay, you got me...hyperbole in the first degree.

While I do not disagree with your argument per se, do think this comment is just a wee bit exaggerated. Canada is much more densely populated than the Sahara!

I admit, I had to look it up. Canada's population density in 2013 was approximately 8.5 people per square mile while the Sahara has about 1 person per square mile.

My guess is Canada probably compares to Australia or European and Asian Russia in terms of population density, then?

Arable land is probably about the same as Australia, less than Russia.

Best,
 
I can't help but bring comparisons to Japan. Is Canada lacking that much territory? Is it really far smaller than Japan?

It is not only about arable land but consumption of the local populace.

Canada has more arable land than japan. But japan consume less per person. If Canada has the same diet as Japanese, you can probably feed 1b there considering it has 10x more arable land than Japan. Of course that is a big if. Westerners don't eat the same amount as the Japanese unless the west adapts Japanese way of life.
 

AsGryffynn

Banned
It is not only about arable land but consumption of the local populace.

Canada has more arable land than japan. But japan consume less per person. If Canada has the same diet as Japanese, you can probably feed 1b there considering it has 10x more arable land than Japan. Of course that is a big if. Westerners don't eat the same amount as the Japanese unless the west adapts Japanese way of life.

I never really thought about diet disparity being that much of an issue. Specially with imports. This is to allow Canada's population to start growing, it doesn't has to be huge in the beginning.
 
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