With a POD of 1945 make the UK a US state. It can be one state or england, wales etc can be individual states.
AHC: Make Britain a US State
- Thread starter Emperor Palpatine
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short of a major nuclear war that reduces the UK's population by at lest 70% (if not 90%) I can't see anything like that happening
Virtually impossible with that POD. You'd have to get rid of the monarchy first, and I can't see that happening. Perhaps have a successful Soviet Union invasion of Western Europe, with Britain petrified of the Red Army parked in Calais. To maximise the protection of the USA, they join to make sure they'd be defended.
Realist01
Banned
In 1945 the US refuses to leave and occupies Britain.
Most of Britains troops were on the continent by 45 - so if the US builds up its troops in the first 6 months of 1945 - " you know we are shipping so many troops here just in case to counter the Soviets" - then by summer they could outnumber the British army in Britain and seize the country.
Of course that would require a crazy "omg the Soviets are swallowing Europe" like panic in the US and a crazy President and Senate.
Most of Britains troops were on the continent by 45 - so if the US builds up its troops in the first 6 months of 1945 - " you know we are shipping so many troops here just in case to counter the Soviets" - then by summer they could outnumber the British army in Britain and seize the country.
Of course that would require a crazy "omg the Soviets are swallowing Europe" like panic in the US and a crazy President and Senate.
Is it wrong of me to say that I would love to see a book/movie/videogame with that premise? Utterly batshit insane, of course, but interesting. Shame that it would likely never exist (I think the Yanks aren't as used to being the bad guys as the Brits and Russians are).
Cryhavoc101
Donor
This would need a pod in C18 where there is a greater investment in NA and then Britain has a subsequent 2nd and more violent and destructive Civil war / Pandemic that effectively sees off the old order in Britain and the capital of the British Empire is effectively moved to Virginia in the Colony Kingdom of Great America with its 31 States (I'm making this up as I type!!!)
Eventually Britain recovers and becomes a Major State of the subsequent Union Of North America and British States (Union of States or US for short) - responsible for much of the Industry as well as Ship Building and Universities.
The British States - subsequently split up into the states of Eire, Scotland, Wales, Wessex and Northumbria also become the gateway to Europe and much trade flows via the islands into Europe and back to the North American States.
During the 'troubles' or 3rd Civil war in 1845 the 5 British States sided with the Union under the Banner of Anti Slavery and Infantry Cavalry and Artillery Regiments from the Island with their distinctive Redcoats while relatively small in number acted as the Unions Shock troops during the early part of the 3 year conflict and turned the tide of many of the earlier battles while the relatively inexperienced Northern American State Forces grew in Strength and experience.
For decades afterwards the word 'Redcoat' would be a curse in those southern states ultimately defeated in the war and even today someone with a British accent would be unwelcome in some places.
The UoS maintained the British policy of opposing any one nation gaining too much power in Europe and since the C18 the UoS has fought in 4 major wars - the last of which in 1956 liberated much of Europe from the URSS and ever since Millions of troops have been stationed in Mainland Europe lest the Reds try again.
Okay so a pre 1900 POD but I got carried away
Eventually Britain recovers and becomes a Major State of the subsequent Union Of North America and British States (Union of States or US for short) - responsible for much of the Industry as well as Ship Building and Universities.
The British States - subsequently split up into the states of Eire, Scotland, Wales, Wessex and Northumbria also become the gateway to Europe and much trade flows via the islands into Europe and back to the North American States.
During the 'troubles' or 3rd Civil war in 1845 the 5 British States sided with the Union under the Banner of Anti Slavery and Infantry Cavalry and Artillery Regiments from the Island with their distinctive Redcoats while relatively small in number acted as the Unions Shock troops during the early part of the 3 year conflict and turned the tide of many of the earlier battles while the relatively inexperienced Northern American State Forces grew in Strength and experience.
For decades afterwards the word 'Redcoat' would be a curse in those southern states ultimately defeated in the war and even today someone with a British accent would be unwelcome in some places.
The UoS maintained the British policy of opposing any one nation gaining too much power in Europe and since the C18 the UoS has fought in 4 major wars - the last of which in 1956 liberated much of Europe from the URSS and ever since Millions of troops have been stationed in Mainland Europe lest the Reds try again.
Okay so a pre 1900 POD but I got carried away
Ideally, you'd go back further and have a D-Day that failed, combined with a failure of the Manhattan project. Post-1945? Very tricky. Try to find a way for an isolationist to win the 1948 election, and that causes Stalin to push his luck, and the US isn't prepared to use nukes. A quick reversal in the 1952 election causes a very anti-communist guy to get into power, and he commits to heavy troop movements to the UK, more integrated NATO command etc, and that lays the framework for a close alliance.
Great Britain: US State (Multi-page thread 1 2)
Wolfhound
Great Britain (c.1968)....51st State??? (Multi-page thread 1 2 3)
Mr_ Bondoc
I'm sure there are some others.
I think you'd need to have a Totalitarian regime in Europe (Nazi or Communist or whatever), leading to the rest of the world joining together under US leadership.
Even so, only 1% or so of such TLs would have a US that demanded its 'allies' subjugate themselves to the US and become States if they wanted any input on policy or control over their military.
Even THEN the UK would likely be 4 or more states, not 1.
Wolfhound
Great Britain (c.1968)....51st State??? (Multi-page thread 1 2 3)
Mr_ Bondoc
I'm sure there are some others.
I think you'd need to have a Totalitarian regime in Europe (Nazi or Communist or whatever), leading to the rest of the world joining together under US leadership.
Even so, only 1% or so of such TLs would have a US that demanded its 'allies' subjugate themselves to the US and become States if they wanted any input on policy or control over their military.
Even THEN the UK would likely be 4 or more states, not 1.
well that would be a very interesting scenario. US politics moves rapidly left, (by US standards.) with a new block of electoral college votes/senators/congressmen that would not be voting right republican or dixiecrat.
And an army willing to follow the orders.
And even if that did happen, making Britain a state won't work, England alone at the time had a population of greater than 1/4 that of the US, so 12-14 states seems a more reasonable number for the isles.
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British Republic
Banned
Actualy some has done a very good thread about Britain joining the USA, it is called "A Star is Born"
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=306909
I am considering doing a reboot of this TL myself.
So if Britain joined the USA as 4 states in the late 70s, what would be the affect on American politics?
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=306909
I am considering doing a reboot of this TL myself.
So if Britain joined the USA as 4 states in the late 70s, what would be the affect on American politics?
I've read in the past that Harold Wilson seriously explored the option of joining the union.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wilson-wanted-uk-to-be-us-state-1075874.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wilson-wanted-uk-to-be-us-state-1075874.html
Given the US Constitution it would be stuped for the UK TO BE a single state
Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland would certainly need to be separate states.
I would also want Greater London to be a State, Cornwall has almost the population of Wyoming
Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland would certainly need to be separate states.
I would also want Greater London to be a State, Cornwall has almost the population of Wyoming
Hm. So much for the Spycatcher allegations that he was a KGB agent.
As far as I can tell, the phrase "51st state" doesn't actually appear in any of the quotes. My guess would be that, insofar as he was seriously considering it at all, he was envisioning some sort of union of the US and the UK as two equal entities.
Tallest Skil
Banned
And New York City has almost the population of…
Population, while relevant, is not the only consideration for the feasibility of a state. Economy, resources, and self-sustainability are just as important.
You wouldn’t suggest that the entirety of Canada become a single state simply because it has roughly the population of California, for example. You’d keep (roughly; combine the Maritimes) the existing state (province) and territory (territory) borders and just watch the numbers in each climb from people moving there.
So i figured this needed to be pointed out in the debate between how many states the UK would be split into. Population size doesn't have much to do with it, and neither does geographical size. Our smallest state would fit into our largest roughly six hundred times over. Likewise, California's population (38 Million) compared to Wisconsin (500,000). There is tones of reasons why this is so, but basically it should be noted that the UK will be divvied into no less than four states. They likely won't be split into more than ten, however, because of representation in the congress and the senate. Each state gets two senators, and tossing even 8 more into the mix would upset the "balance" (if you can call it that) that the house has seem to struck. With that in mind, there is no way that the US would want to add 14 more states.
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