AHC: Make a radically different world than OTL with 1000 CE POD

The closer the POD is to the year 1000, the more time there is for changes to accumulate. Also, if the POD takes place in a place well connected to many other prominent places, the butterflies should be flapping harder; a POD in the Fertile Crescent is more likely to lead to large changes than one in Scandinavia. That is why the POD should either take place in Europe or a place with strong ties to that continent, because post-1500 it is European colonisation and trade that had the strongest global consequences, as opposed to regional ones.

Not sure how feasible this is and someone please correct me if what I write is implausible. Basil II, aware of the poor calibre of successors available in the Macedonian dynasty, decides to formally adopt and appoint as successor a young man who was the son of one of his old generals and who was already being raised at court (well, in a monastery but overseen by Basil), one Isaac Komnenos. If Basil dies when he did in OTL, Isaac I ascends the throne at age 18. Now, I'm gambling the prestige of the dynasty and Basil II himself makes people fall in line and that Basil's brother, OTL Constantine VIII, a purportedly indolent man, either does not rebel or does and fails (again, someone correct me if this is implausible). Isaac marries Catherine of Bulgaria as in OTL, which might bring the Bulgarians in line. He more or less continues Basil's policies and if he lives like in OTL, he'll rule for 35 years, leading to nearly a century of good emperorship. Now, perhaps Isaac will have a surviving son ITTL, perhaps he will be succeeded by his brother John and then an alt-Alexios I. Given OTL Komnenid fortune/skill in raising children/whatever, let's assume that at least in the half century after Isaac's death the emperors are somewhere between decent and great.

Meanwhile, the Seljuks have taken Persia and are becoming more Persian themselves. The Turkish migration keeps moving west and they raid enemy territory. Only, where in OTL they took advantage of Roman weakness in the 1040s and 1050s, here they hit a wall and fail to defeat Isaac. After a period of failed or inconclusive raids, the Seljuks decide to go for what is perhaps the even greater enemy and an easier target; not orthodox Rome is their goal, but shia Egypt. The Turks fall on Egypt like a storm and manage to end the Fatimid dynasty, after decades of struggle or perhaps if Alp Arslan is born despite the POD the Turks win within years. Turkish penetration in Eastern Anatolia is light to nonexistent, with the Turks settling down in Persia, Mesopotamia, Syria and lush Egypt.

With the Seljuk Empire stretching from Persia to Egypt, the rulers will have a difficult time keeping it all together. Perhaps things fall apart not long after the conquest of Egypt, perhaps it all remains united for decades or even a century, threatening the Romans. In any case, with the Komnenids at the helm I say that nothing like Manzikert happens in the 11th century at least and even if something like that were to happen, there wouldn't be enough itinerant Turks and Turkmen to demographically change Eastern Anatolia, much less the rest. Sooner or later, the Seljuk empire fragments and the successor states fight each other more than the Romans or others.

Now, why the focus on the Romans? Because their geographical position means their actions have direct consequences on three continents in the short term. An empire led by Isaac I immediately after Basil II is liable to hold the Danube border and take Sicily and perhaps the entirety of Southern Italy. This in turn puts the pope in a bind, potentially butterflying the schism or at least delaying it; Leo IX might very well never become pope. The pope, whoever it is, might suck up to Constantinople or might lean on the German emperor, butterflying the investiture controversy. Henry III tried to subdue Hungary more than once; perhaps in this world Aachen and Constantinople fight over who gets to have the Hungarians in their camp. Norman Sicily will not exist here, so Norman interest in England is likely to be even greater than it was IOTL or perhaps many Normans become Varangians and end up somewhere in the Middle East. In any case, the mess that is 11th century England could have a number of outcomes, among others an Anglosaxon England. Then, with the Turko-Persian Seljuks taking Egypt, that country would take on many Persianate characteristics, producing a different country compared to what we are used to. An earlier Fatimid demise means that the Banu Hilal never go west, irrevocably changing North Africa and quite possibly Iberia. A stronger Roman empire with a presence in Southern Italy and possibly Venice would influence the North Italians, who are in the midst of their Commercial revolution. A Roman Empire with stronger western ties and still in the Macedonian renaissance may very well spur on a quicker and more importantly stronger counterpart to the 12th century renaissance, causing all kinds of butterflies. Looking further afield, all the butterflies would prevent Genghis' birth and presumably the rise of the Mongols, stronger trade links might make one of the Greenlandic Norse think 'hey, maybe there is something to be found in that western land cousin Snorri can trade for the laterst Roman/Persian/Indian luxury', who knows what the Song might get up to if their dynasty gets to live out its natural life, hell, perhaps it's Berber North Africa which tries to circumnavigate Africa in order to cut out the Roman and Turkish middle man. By the 21st century, the world will be a very different one.
 
Find a way to make the classic Song China industrialization scenario happen. Or perhaps find a way to get China into overseas expansion and justify all sorts of wars in Southeast Asia. Any scenario which results in China (or Japan) in the New World would be gamechanging.

Perhaps related, have the Polynesians settle the Galapagos, Cocos, and Juan Fernandez and put together a long-distance trade network which would give incentives to keep them sailing around, perhaps alleviating the collapse of many Polynesian societies. What gets traded? In addition to the obvious resources of coastal South America, they may move crops to either end as well as ideas. So better Mesoamerican/South American maritime traditions (and more contact), potatoes in Mesoamerica and perhaps in New Zealand or even Australia (since the proto-Maori might explore further and stay there), links to Southeast Asia and beyond, etc. This would have huge butterflies on Precolumbian history and eventually European history since it will totally change the way the Americas are colonized.
 

yoyo

Banned
The Hindu kingdoms smash the ghaznavids and stop Islamization of India.
This might enable continued development of Indian institutions such that the subcontinent is very different by 1800, almost unrecognizable.
 
As for Christianity, a POD in 1000 is too late.

Not too late to slow its spread, kill different people etc. I have 'head' tl with a 995 PoD (just out range but makes my point) that keeps Scandinavia Pagan for 1-200 years more, slows the Northern Crusades and possibly makes Vinland a thing due to a more violent conversion creating a North Atlantic refugee population.
 
Perhaps related, have the Polynesians settle the Galapagos, Cocos, and Juan Fernandez and put together a long-distance trade network which would give incentives to keep them sailing around, perhaps alleviating the collapse of many Polynesian societies. What gets traded? In addition to the obvious resources of coastal South America, they may move crops to either end as well as ideas. So better Mesoamerican/South American maritime traditions (and more contact), potatoes in Mesoamerica and perhaps in New Zealand or even Australia (since the proto-Maori might explore further and stay there), links to Southeast Asia and beyond, etc. This would have huge butterflies on Precolumbian history and eventually European history since it will totally change the way the Americas are colonized.

Kumara (sweet potatoes) were a thing in Maori New Zealand. They struggled to grow in the South Island (Southern Island Maori had to get really creative there), but they had them.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
I agree with @SeaCambrian: no Genghis Khan (or similar ATL substitute) totally changes Eurasian history and culture, and ultimately the whole world.

-- The Khwarazmid Empire lasts longer, at least somewhat. The Abbasid Caliphate, likewise and moreso. (Keep in mind the Abbasid military re-ordering during its last decades, which they never got the chance to complete. Also note the intellectual revival, signified by the foundation of the Mustansiriya Madrasah.) No matter what, no sack of Baghdad has huge intellectual and cultural effects in the Islamic world. In the long run, these developments may really marginalise Shi'a Islam, now that I think about it...

-- In China, the Song dynasty was already fracturing. Mounting disagreements about fundamental policy issues had been poisoning the court for a century, and the Jin–Song Wars demonstrated that the periodic unity of China was coming to an end. The Mongol invasion forced renewed unity on relatively short notice, with the Yuan dynasty being directly supplanted by the ascendant Ming dynasty. Before the Mongol invasion, lengthy periods of Chinese unification were consistently followed by lengthy periods of division. That well-established pattern was totally thrown out of whack by the Mongol invasion. No Mongol conquest means, in my estimation, that the Song empire continues to fracture, which leads to a period of division, which is then followed by gradual re-unification of China (culminating in, roughly, 1550 or so).

-- In Russia, Kievan Rus' is already bust, but the lack of the Golden Horde does mean that we'll see quite a different power struggle in the region. (It doesn't have to be Muscovy that comes out on top.) More importantly, this has effects when it comes to both Russian self-perception and Western perception of Russia. Although it may be marginal at first, Russia will be regarded as more European than (Eur)Asian. There will still be an East (Orthodox) versus West (Catholic) divide in the cultural consciousness, but "Orthodox Europe" will still be quite obviously "Europe" to most people.

-- No Ilkhanate means that the Seljuk states don't get totally overrun. Their mighty empire is already gone, but things don't get as bad and humiliating as in OTL. This probably prevents the Ottoman Empire. This may actually make matters worse for the (already ravaged and still desperately re-bounding) Byzantines. The ERE may just get directly supplanted by an ascendant Sultanate of Rum, and earlier than it fell in OTL. (And the non-subjugated Russia is an even more likely candidate to inherit the position of predominant Orthodox power than in OTL. I doubt the Turks ever get any control over the Crimea, here.)

-- The Timurids also get butterflied, which in turn means no Babur to strike into India. The relation between the Islamic world and India is going to be rather different as a result. No Mughal Empire. (And the way the Delhi Sultanate operates in this ATL is going to be drastically different because of that.)

-- As far as the Western Europeans are concerned: without the Mongols, I figure the Crusaders are going to get their asses kicked just that bit harder, near the end. This may well mean that the Crusader states fall a bit earlier, or at least that their prospects become obviously hopeless. This may have effects on the lives of various European figures, not least of which would be Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor. If he can dedicate his full attention to European affairs, that may even affect the final outcome of the whole Investiture controversy. (His excommunication over his OTL failure to commit to his pledged Crusading obligations can easily be butterflied, in any event.) The Mongol invasion of Hungary also demanded Frederick's time, resources and attention for a bit, and that's not a factor here, either.

-- The Mongol conquests demonstrably caused an uptick in Eurasian trade and East-West contact. That is butterflied here. East and West were never truly isolated, but they do remain more divided in this ATL. There is a theory that the Black Death was spread across Eurasia due to the increased post-Mongol contact. The lack of Mongol conquests may therefore also prevent the Black Death altogether. This will have major socio-economic ramifications, obviously.


There are far more changes resulting from this one POD, but it should be obvious that there can scarcely be any similarly simple POD that has greater potential to utterly alter the world.
 
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There are far more changes resulting from this one POD, but it should be obvious that there can scarcely be any similarly simple POD that has greater potential to utterly alter the world.

I couldn't say it better! Genghis Khan and his heirs radically changed history on three different continents, you can get more far reaching that.
 
Genghis Khan and No Black Death are two big ones as mentoned previously. Below are IMO substantial changes which would have a significant effect among those already mentioned.
  • Prince Henry The Navigator either dies at a young age, or never acquires the need for exploration / profit. In short, Age of Discovery is significantly delayed and more fractured.
  • Potatoes are either not brought to Europe or never catch on as a staple food crop.
  • Islamic expansion throughout South East Asia encompassing all of the Phillipines, Papua New Guinea, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Viet Nam and Myanmar.
  • No Islamic expansion into Southeast Asia.
  • South African colonization by the Dutch and followed up by the English fail miserbly with Cape Town never becoming larger then a resupply depot.
  • No unification of Italy or Germany in the 1800's.
  • House of Saud does not become the ruling family and no other family unifies the peninsula.
  • USA does not win the American Revolution with North America being carved out into colonies by U.K., France and Spain.
  • Indigenous peoples of the Americas are have the same mortality rate to small pox and cholera as Europeans.
  • Scandinavians (aka Vikings) never convert to Christianity.
 
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Prevent the Reconquista but the Norman kingdom of (north) Africa prevails. Cut off from the Islamic World the rulers of Al Andalus, Marocco and Mali try to sail west to Mecca leading to an African America.
 
I think you guys are forgetting another huge POD:

Let's say the War against the Bulgarians concludes swifter with Basil having more success and Tsar Samuel being captured early on in say 1006. During the course of his campaign he sees a peasant Bulgarian woman whom he takes a liking to and marries. This results in Basil having a male heir. Now this heir would then be trained by the Bulgar-Slayer in both the affairs of state and how to put the military aristocrats in their place. Thus the reign on Constantine VIII the incompetent is butterflied away, and the factionalism between the bureaucrats and aristocrats doesn't emerge with another strong emperor on the throne. Basil II also lives long enough that he's able to regain control of Sicily for the Empire. Sicily serves as a boost to the empire with its fertile lands and its strategic position in the Mediterranean as a trade hub and naval base. Basil II's son Romanos III now begins to rule in his own right around the 1030's and thus is a young ruler in his 20's full of vigor to rule the state. Assuming he's a competent administrator like his father, and a good military commander, (Basil was a better strategist/planner than a military commander) Romanos III should have no trouble ruling. Let's say that Romanos III notices Issac Komnenos with his military talent that impresses the emperor, Romanos now has a good set of commanders to help him command the empire.

Once the integration of Bulgaria is well under way, Romanos now has the option of expanding into Southern Italy which wouldn't experience the Norman Conquest since the Romans are still strong without the anarchy of the death of Basil II. Culturally and economically, the empire is still riding high on the Macedonian revival. This probably butterflies away the pope and any sort of Papal schism. Since the Romans would be strong and fighting the Arabs, and so close to Rome, the pope would have to try and play the Germanic Kaiser and the Roman Emperor off each other to survive. This means that the schism and the investiture controversy are butterflied away. Without the investiture controversy to weaken the authority of the Holy Roman Emperor, the Italians might stay in the emperor's orbit with the Romans at their doorstep. The HRE might actuall succeed in centralizing in this timeline. But if something like the Papal pornocracy emerges, I fully expect the Romans to be the dark horse, and appoint their own pope as head of the Western Church.

Since the POD has Romanos II be a military genius, he likely takes after Tzimiskes and retakes Jerusalem and Damascus like his father's forebear nearly did. If the emperor were to pull something like this off, it would give the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Eastern Church more prestige in the West. Also since the Empire is strong, its likely that Venice never grows to the heights it did since it could only do so out of the Byzantine weakness after Manzikert and the financial concessions granted to it by Emperor Alexios I Komenos.
 
Here are some more PoDs, a little less "Eurocentric" if you will;


  • The Maori never reach New Zealand, instead settling somewhere else like Papau or Australia. Probably the less radical of the PoDs, but could have interesting consequences for the local regions, and future European colonization. New Zealand will especially be affected as the lack of Maori will definitely have an effect on the Island's future post-Discovery.
  • The Communists lose the Chinese Civil War and aligns itself more with the Capitalist nations. The lack of a Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution, or any other Maoist policy will have massive butterflies considering how much death, destruction, and censorship has been prevented. It could also prevent the rise of Communism in places like Indochina and Korea, preventing the famines or mass killings there aswell.
  • Siberia is taken by the Chinese before the Russians. Unless they conquer it from the Chinese, Russian culture and history will be heavily changed with the lack of that large chunk of land stretching from the Urals to Sakhalin within its grasp. Also of note is Alaska, which without the Russians, will probably colonized by China or Japan, which in on itself will have huge butterflies, which could range from a larger Asian presence in the Americas to there being no USA at all, or atleast no presence on the West Coast.
  • The Black Death is deadlier. Quite simply, between 1346 and 1353 the Black Death kills a few million more people worldwide. That alone will prevent the births of influential figures, cause different events and decisions, and send nations down different paths.
  • The Mongols reach Western Europe and North Africa before they collapse. Alot of fun stuff should go down with the extra raids, pillages, disease, and general chaos, which will cause numerous future cultural and government ramifications and changes.
 
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